Guenter Milde wrote:
> On 2009-11-11, Pavel Sanda wrote:
> > Guenter Milde wrote:
> >> Suggestion:
> >> Would it be possible, to pre-select Latin Modern in the standard
> >> template?
>
> >> LM is out for some time by now and could be considered the "de-facto
> >> standard" for T1-encoded CM-lookalikes.
>
> > unfortunately this is much more complex thing than it looks on the
> > first sight.
>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg142386.html
>
> Let me try to defuse some objections from the discussion 1 1/2 years ago:
this belongs to devel list and i'll repost it there
> "LM are [...] not by default included in all LaTeX distributions, for
> example not in MiKTeX."
>
> 1. This would indeed be a problem, but is this still true today?
>
> 2. The Debian LyX package could recommend the "lmodern" package.
>
> The Windows-Installer could recommend loading at least the T1 encoded
> LM fonts.
>
>
> "LM are included in basic versions of TeXLive and MiKTeX, but the problem
> is that we still have teTeX users where LM is not included."
>
> A. I argue that teTeX users are by now a minority that can be expected to
> change a setting that suits most users of up-to-date LaTeX
> installations.
>
>
> "there's no reason to force users to use a certain font and not the LaTeX
> default one."
>
> 1. There is a reason:
>
> * LyX does not use the default TeX font encoding (OT1) but
> the T1 encoding (for sensible reasons).
>
> * In this encoding, the TeX default fonts (CM) are only available as
> bitmaps.
>
> 2. We do not force users to use a certain font but set a working
> font-encoding/font combination as initial default.
>
> My suggestion is *not* to change the meaning of [Default] but to set
> [Latin Modern] in the standard *template*. This is easily reversed by
> the user:
> * Make a document
> * use the menu Document->Settings->Fonts
> * Set the Roman font, Sans serif font and Typewriter font to "Default".
> * Use the button "Save as Document Defaults".
>
>
> "Why do you think we should especially use LM and not TeXGyre or one of
> the various other beautiful fonts?"
>
> 1. Principle of minimal change/surprise:
> We'll let the pre-set font *look like* the default one.
>
> 2. As CM lookalike, LM works best with the various extensions/symbols
> created for CM. Hence LM has the best available math support.
>
> 3. "If you want a font, select one and then it's up to you how the result
> looks and you are aware of that selecting a different font leads to a
> different output."
>
> "LM and CM differs also in shapes, a good example is the German sharp s
> "ß" character."
>
> 1. These changes are still minor in comparision to selecting a completely
> different font, so they do not impede the compatibility with other
> fonts designed to work with CM.
>
> 2. Opinions differ, but for me the Geman sharp s 'ß' (the es-zet) is an
> example for the "Internationality" of the LM fonts. The LM ß is the
> version recommended in German typesetting ("Sulzbacher Form"), while
> the CM ß is a ligature of ?? (long s) and s.
>
> "I don't think that they should be set as default. When you create a
> new document, the corresponding latex file should ideally be
>
> \documentclass{article}
> \begin{document}
> \end{document}
> "
>
> A. In this case, you would need to turn off hyperref anyway.
> Just reset the fonts to [Default], too.
>
>
> "you could choose to load your own font package in order to substitute
> standard fonts with something else. So, if we load, without you knowing
> it, the lmodern package, a clash could arise"
>
> A. You will see [Latin Modern] in the font selection GUI. Just reset the
> to [Default].
>
>
> "lmodern is about 12 MB to download and we got complaints that I we even
> check if this font is installed as this could lead to a package download,
> but not everybody has a flatrate "
>
> A. Without flatrate, you should not set up non-interactive package download.
>
> "> This one's easy to argue against. First of all, LyX is a 24MB download
> > (For Mac.)
>
> 36 instead of 24 MB is 50% extra, and this only for a font.
> "
>
> A. LM is ~ 50 % of LyX, but less than 50 % of LyX + (LaTeX - LM).
>
>
> Günter
>
