If you're convinced it's stuck in a loop,  removing all power (including

the NiCd) for a time should fix that....



On 12/14/17, Mauro Pintus <[email protected]> wrote:
> Thank you Fugu and Brian for the feedback.
>
> Yes I tried the beep BASIC test with no luck and also the cold start (the
> M10 and the M100 are almost identical...).
>
> I made few other measurements trying to replicate what Brian is doing and
> for sure the unit is in a loop...
>
> In the linked google photo album I added another picture (the first one)
> showing the ROM CS (Pin 20 yellow trace) and the IO/M of the main processor
> (Pin 34 blue trace)
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/8YSbaAxZBuXu5rjC2
>
> As you can see at the beginning of the repeted sequence, I get only 5 pulses
> on the IO/M
>
> The strange thing is that there is so little activity on the RAM CEx (chip
> enable), like nothing is loaded.
>
> Finally I measured also the CSx (chip select) on the LCD connector and none
> are moving, confirming that on the LCD nothing can be displayed.
>
> Mauro
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 13, 2017, at 7:01 AM, Fugu ME100 wrote:
>
>> Vee at –4.9V is good.
>>
>> You may have already looked at these options, so apologies if you have…
>>
>> The repetitive nature of the ROM CS cycling could be the CPU in a software
>> loop waiting for keyboard input.   Have you tried the BEEP test from BASIC
>> to see if the motherboard is actually running?
>>
>> Have you tried a cold start?  On the M100 press ctrl+pause while powering
>> on, not sure about the M10.  It could be the memory is corrupted with the
>> loss of backup power.  Always a good idea when first powering after
>> switching off/on the backup power..
>>
>>
>> From: M100 <[email protected]> on behalf of Mauro Pintus
>> <[email protected]>
>> Reply-To: <[email protected]>
>> Date: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 at 5:24 PM
>> To: <[email protected]>
>> Subject: Re: [M100] diagnose
>>
>> Hi,
>>   I have a not working Olivetti M10 and a Rigol DS1104Z oscilloscope, so I
>> made few measurement to try to help Brian and in the mean time try to
>> troubleshoot my unit.
>>
>> My unit was working properly and stopped as soon as I flipped the NiCd
>> battery switch off while the unit was ON (done by mistake with the cover
>> open).
>> Now the screen turn on but I can regulate just the contrast and no text
>> appear on the screen.
>> I also made a small arduino circuit to test the LCD alone, and I'm able to
>> write text on it, so the LCD should be fine.
>>
>> BTW I think Brian is using way too long ground leads on the oscilloscope
>> probe.
>> I made my measurement clipping the alligator clip to the metal case of the
>> main crystal that in the M10 is grounded with a pice of bare wire.
>> Is your scope grounded? I can see in one of your pictures the usual US
>> plug with only 2 terminals...
>>
>> Here are some screenshots of my measurements.
>>
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/8YSbaAxZBuXu5rjC2
>>
>> Pictures:
>> 1) CLK pin 37 of the 8085
>> 2) Pin 7 of the 8085
>> 3-4) CS Pin 20 of the ROM it seems to cycle over and over
>> 5) Reset * at power on
>>
>> VEE is 4.9V
>> V across the battery is 4.02 when the unit is on and 3.9 when off
>>
>> Tomorrow I'll continue hoping Brian or some of you can confirm/compare
>> some of my measurements.
>> Have a nice day
>> Ciao
>>   Mauro
>>
>> NOTE: I think I will measure all the pins on the system bus so anyone with
>> an oscilloscope can do the same without opening the unit case...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 11, 2017, at 9:28 AM, Fugu ME100 wrote:
>>
>>> Ah the “special tool” requirement always hated to see that in any
>>> step…..
>>>
>>> What did the –5V measure on the meter?  If it is not within spec neither
>>> the LCD or buzzer will work.
>>>
>>> From: M100 <[email protected]> on behalf of Brian White
>>> <[email protected]>
>>> Reply-To: <[email protected]>
>>> Date: Sunday, December 10, 2017 at 11:30 PM
>>> To: <[email protected]>
>>> Subject: Re: [M100] Fwd: Re: diagnose
>>>
>>> Thanks for that tip.
>>>
>>> And oh like some GM repair manuals where replacing an entire transmission
>>> might be 11 steps, but one of them is to use the $12,000 machine no one
>>> outside of the factory has ever even seen.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 8, 2017 1:38 PM, "Fugu ME100" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> It might be better to use the CLK (37) output as a reference if it is
>>> needed.  The CLK is derived from the X1,X2 XTAL inputs and should not be
>>> impacted by the loading of the scope probes.
>>>
>>> The M100 reference manual is quite good for troubleshooting some parts,
>>> although it does have a few broad instructions like “Check All IC’s”.
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> From: M100 <[email protected]> on behalf of Brian White
>>> <[email protected]>
>>> Reply-To: <[email protected]>
>>> Date: Friday, December 8, 2017 at 9:55 AM
>>> To: <[email protected]>
>>> Subject: Re: [M100] Fwd: Re: diagnose
>>>
>>> I noticed something a couple days ago. Those noisy gnd and 5v lines were
>>> only like that because I happened to have probes on both X1 and X2 at the
>>> same time.
>>>
>>> Later I was looking at a good M100, and happened to only be watching X1
>>> and others but not X2, and everything was much better. But just by
>>> touching a probe to X2 while another was on X1, both gnd and 5v went
>>> exactly like those pics I posted from the bad M100. I can probe either X1
>>> or X2 and it's fine, but not bith at the same time.
>>>
>>> I don't actually see any special reason to monitor either of those
>>> signals except briefly to verify they exist, or to provide something
>>> steady to trigger on while probing others. Just pointing out something I
>>> saw that explains those ugly traces.
>>>
>>> On Dec 7, 2017 11:45 AM, "Josh Malone" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Yeah - there is something very weird with the ground on that Tandy.
>>> Maybe some problematic traces? Or a bad IC leaking current to ground?
>>>
>>> Can you measure the DC power consumption? It should be ~60-70mA IIRC.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 10:14 PM, Brian White <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> > After watching a youtube video about how to use an oscilloscope by
>>> > sparkfun,
>>> > I switched all probes and channels to 10x and adjusted the trim caps in
>>> > the
>>> > probes against the built in test signal to make the square wave look
>>> > square.
>>> >
>>> > With gnd ref on the cpu gnd pin 20 instead of chassis gnd, and a
>>> > couple
>>> > probes on X1 and reset_in, and one probe on chassis ground, now the x1
>>> > and
>>> > reset_in signals are steady, reset_in looks flatter, and only the trace
>>> > for
>>> > chassis ground floats and bobs up and down now.
>>> >
>>> > So chassis ground simply floats around in relation to the rest of the
>>> > board,
>>> > or at least in relation to the cpu. Not a bad afe in the scope.
>>> > *chagrin*
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > bkw
>>> >
>>> > On Dec 6, 2017 7:38 PM, "Brian White" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> This is the bobbing I was talking about. It's dumb for me to even be
>>> >> talking about it yet since I haven't even done a basic comparison
>>> >> check on
>>> >> some other reference yet.
>>> >>
>>> >> https://youtu.be/b9jAYsfTOzQ
>>> >>
>>> >> And here's another look at a different signal hooked up a different
>>> >> way.
>>> >> Here, I have the ground ref hooked to the gnd pin 20 on the 8085, NOT
>>> >> the
>>> >> chassis ground. And CH4 is on pin 18, AD6. The offsets, trigger, and
>>> >> vertical scales are all visible on-screen.
>>> >>
>>> >> https://photos.app.goo.gl/mel4CKym2EtcV1352
>>> >>
>>> >> https://photos.app.goo.gl/K1AIj3Pmt15xXfR72
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> bkw
>>> >>
>>> >
>>
>
>

Reply via email to