If you're going to write your own (or heavily modify the) operating system,
i wonder if getting the filesystem out of RAM and onto a different device
would make more sense than expanding RAM without more address space.

-Alex

On Wed, Nov 20, 2024, 22:43 Mike Stein <[email protected]> wrote:

> Unless you write your own operating system, *expanding* RAM linearly
> without bank switching is not "rare", it's not possible; the CPU can only
> address 64K, of which the lower 32K is occupied by the system ROM (OS,
> BASIC,other built-in apps) and a few K of RAM at the top are reserved for
> system variables.
>
> On Wed, Nov 20, 2024 at 9:36 PM Chris Kmiec <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Thanks everyone, looks like the LCD is what it is, and anything beyond
>> 32k RAM is very rare and not really worth it since REX can just switch out
>> the whole 32k. Time to dive in and start playing with what I have!
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 20, 2024 at 4:18 PM Brian K. White <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/20/24 08:19, Chris Kmiec wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hmm, I don’t see that feature in the specs for REX#. It has 1mb of
>>> Flash
>>> > memory for storing ROM images and can backup and restore the ram, but
>>> I
>>> > don’t see and RAM on REX that would allow me to max out Tandy’s
>>> onboard RAM.
>>>
>>> There's a few different things to explain here...
>>>
>>> The machine can only address up to 32k at a time, so in one sense there
>>> is no ram expansion beyond filling all 4 possible 8k sockets inside. You
>>> have a few different options for that. GGLabs sells a module called
>>> M10-RAM that you can buy. They have a site for the info but the actual
>>> buy link is on ebay or tindie etc. Otherwise you can build your own by
>>> following https://github.com/bkw777/Model_T_RAM
>>>
>>> (Apologies but this mail will end up having a few links to things from
>>> me on github since I've been playing with several forms of ram & rom
>>> addons for the 100-200 the last few years)
>>>
>>> There have been several forms of ram expansion that connect to the
>>> system bus and work by containing multiple banks of 32k and you have a
>>> software method to switch from one bank to another. You can only access
>>> the contents of a single bank at any one time. It's like unplugging all
>>> your chips and putting other chips in. I think the PG Design ones driver
>>> software might have some feature to be able to move a file from one bank
>>> to another, so there was some just barely form of access to the other
>>> banks. No one makes those currently but years ago Steve Adolf made
>>> something called QUAD which replicated the PG Design, and more recently
>>> I replicated & updated QUAD to make reQUAD
>>> https://github.com/bkw777/reQUAD
>>> No one makes it for sale but you can buy all the parts and build one
>>> yourself or find someone to do it for you.
>>>
>>>
>>> All 3 types of REX, (REX Classic, REX#, REXCPM) include a feature to do
>>> full backups & restore of the 32k internal ram. It's not quite the
>>> one-button instant swap like with the ram expansions, but just about.
>>> It's only a few presses to go into REXMGR and do a backup & then a
>>> restore. In fact I think he might have even streamlined that operation
>>> in the latest version for REX#. I know he did add some overwrite
>>> protection to avoid accidental deletes or overwrites. So in the end,
>>> it's functionally almost the same as having a ram expansion. It's just
>>> that underneath what's really happening is you are dumping the current
>>> ram out to a chunk of flash and then restoring some other chunk of flash
>>> over the ram. The actual ram expansions only gave you essentially the
>>> same outward functionality, just a little faster.
>>>
>>> REXCPM is a special case in that it also actually replaces your internal
>>> ram with it's own 32k. So if you have less than 32k, a REXCPM would give
>>> you 32k.
>>>
>>> If Steve can't sell you a REX# or REXCPM at the moment, there is an
>>> option to build your own REX Classic.
>>> https://github.com/bkw777/REX_Classic
>>>
>>> Not ram but probably the more practical way to have more room to work is
>>> disk space. The most practical answer for that is a Backpack.
>>> https://www.soigeneris.com/universal-backpack-drive
>>>
>>> I have something you can build called PDDuino which actually predates
>>> backpack, but backpack is far more feature rich and polished. (From what
>>> I can tell. I have not used one because since I want to work on the
>>> fully open source option that does the same thing, I don't want to ever
>>> be accused of even seeing the firmware in the backpack.)
>>> https://github.com/bkw777/PDDuino
>>>
>>> Basically the idea is 99% of the hardware is just an off-the-shelf
>>> Adafruit Feather or Teensy dev board and you just plug it in to a little
>>> serial port adapter board. It has a rechargeable lithium cell you
>>> recharge by usb, or you can just run on usb alone, or you can even run
>>> on power tapped from the BCR port.
>>>
>>> I've also made a version of a kind of ram disk that seems like at one
>>> time a few different people all made versions of essentially the same
>>> thing. It's a very neat little circuit where basically it's nothing but
>>> an address latch, a binary counter, and some ram, and that ends up
>>> emulating a spinning disk. The device only supports 2 functions, select
>>> a block address, and read/write a byte. Each time you select a block
>>> address, the binary counter is also reset to 0. Each time your read or
>>> write a byte, the binary counter is also advanced by 1. A block has 1024
>>> bytes. So You select say block 40, then just read 1024 times to read the
>>> entire block. Like picking a track number and reading the track.
>>>
>>> https://github.com/bkw777/NODE_DATAPAC?tab=readme-ov-file#minindp
>>>
>>> But this needs to connect to the system bus and that's inconvenient on a
>>> Model 100 because it would need to be on a cable extending out to the
>>> back of the machine. You can actually use the Model 100 adapter portion
>>> of a DVI (Disk/Video Interface) cable for this.
>>> But really it's only good on a 102 or 200 where it just plugs directly
>>> onto the back of the machine.
>>>
>>> And what you get is disk space not ram. You could get disk space in a
>>> generally more convenient and flexible form from Backpack or PDDuino
>>> because those use the TPDD protocol, for which there are several bits of
>>> compatible software and hardware. IE, you have a choice of a few
>>> different kinds of TPDD driver software to run on the 100, and then the
>>> drive can also be used by other machines. the TANDY WP-2 has built-in
>>> tpdd support in it's firmware. You can connect a real TPDD drive or a
>>> backpack/pdduino to a PC and there are several softwares to access the
>>> drive or emulate a drive in any os, since the connection is just rs-232
>>> and the protocol is known.
>>>
>>> While the RAMPAC-alikes there is no pc software to access the drive, and
>>> no hardware adapter to somehow connect it to a pc anyway. There are a
>>> few utils that made it a little more convenient to move files between
>>> the rampac and a tpdd, so to move files between rampac and pc you would
>>> use a 102/200 in the middle with the pc running a tpdd emulator.
>>>
>>> Still it has some little advantages. Small and simple. The driver
>>> software is smaller than most TPDD dos's, much smaller than TS-DOS but
>>> larger than Teeny. And it holds 512k.
>>>
>>> And the low level hardware interface is so simple and easy to operate
>>> directly even from basic, that you can actually use the raw space almost
>>> like ram if you are writing your own program.
>>>
>>> I have a 1 Meg version that actually has the entire hardware interface
>>> described right on the silkscreen on the back. because it's basically
>>> just 3 instructions with a tiny bit of explanation for the possible
>>> values for each. The normal RAMDSK software doesn't know how to access
>>> the extra space beyond banks 0 & 1, so the only way to use that is to
>>> write your own program that accesses banks 2 & 3 directly and uses it as
>>> raw space.
>>>
>>> TPDD is not convenient to access at the low level. It's only convenient
>>> at the user level using TS-DOS. Although TS-DOS does provide some hooks
>>> to provide high level file access functions in basic or from machine
>>> language.
>>>
>>> --
>>> bkw
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Chris
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Nov 19, 2024 at 7:44 PM Bert Put <[email protected]
>>> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >     Hi Chris,
>>> >
>>> >     Not the screen so much, but your REX will already give you oodles
>>> of
>>> >     RAM
>>> >     in banks of 32K.  So you can swap out and in, as many RAM banks as
>>> your
>>> >     REX has space for.
>>> >
>>> >     I just discovered that recently while playing with my (original)
>>> REX,
>>> >     M-100 and T-102.
>>> >
>>> >     Cheers,    Bert
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >     On 11/19/24 17:59, Chris Kmiec wrote:
>>> >      > I have to admit, I have not been following the latest
>>> >     developments for
>>> >      > the 100/102. I have the backpack, REX# and REXCPM, but they have
>>> >     been
>>> >      > sitting lonely as for the past year or so my hobby time has been
>>> >     taken
>>> >      > over by the HP 71b.
>>> >      >
>>> >      > Anyway, I want to start playing with the 100-series again, but
>>> >     have a
>>> >      > question - are there any modern upgrades for the LCD screen and
>>> >     increase
>>> >      > in RAM beyond the 32Kb?
>>> >
>>>
>>> --
>>> bkw
>>>
>>>

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