I was only speaking for myself...and therefore, that's my reality...when my reality is better...and my funding is strong, I don't worry so much about the fee and therefore can take the risk of sending the books out at my own expense. The point of the $88 was to say exactly what you have...which is... its a helluva lot of money...whether its for gas in my tank or food for my children. Either way, either use...its a lot of money to go "poof" in the mail box. Your distinction between how the money is used or what percetage of my income that it accounts for is irrelevant in the long run. It's just plain too much money to throw away. Period.
Initially I thought your concern was around people making money on mail art. If your query is about inclusion vs. exclusion...then I would say this: Mail art...most art I would guess...is about communication. Do you honestly believe I am charging a fee to
exclude people from the project? Have I communicated a world view of that nature between the lines of my call?
Actually, I would think the very nature of the call would lead most artists to at least guess that I want to get as many people involved as possible, but I also want to get the books back.
So...to answer your question fully we have to try to drill down to the intent vs. impact level. My intent is just to get people in the game far enough to follow through. The impact is that I'm excluding people. The middle ground is that I communicate extensively with the Network and I am diligent in ensuring that interested artists have venues for contacting me to discuss the fee. I am receptive to dialogue about my call(s) and try to offer "free play" as much as possible. I also try to run simulataneous calls that parallel each
other. Right now I have 11 mini art journals out and about...freebies...and anyone can be added to the list...but again...those are the ones that are missing.
This is an interesting string of dialogue considering that my day job is Diveristy Initiatives. I fully understand the impact vs. intent conundrum and try to mitigate it as best I can...but there are no easy answers, so we have to jump in with both feet and do the best we can. The first step is to assume that we are all here with caring in our hearts and have no malice toward one another. If we start there, the process is much more fun.
What do you think?
mailart_manekineko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Good points. I guess the problem is that while
$88 is gas money for two weeks for you,
it's
One month+ total income for most humans.
Most people don't even have cars, let alone have money to spend
fueling someone elses.
So by charging a fee, are you not eliminating all but the richest
segments of the world?
I know this is an old debate but as you are someone who charges fees,
I am interested to know your side of this.
--manekineko
http://www.mailart.org
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com , serendipity <serendipityartist@...>
wrote:
>
> Yes, mail art IS changing.
>
> I think as more people come to it the "rules of engagement" change
to accomodate the influx. There's been a significant rise in the
number of people trying to better understand how the mail art
phenomenon works...let alone how to create artwork that will
realistically make it through the mail.
>
> Also, we are experiencing a shift in the kinds of art that's being
created...I'm into art journals, handmade paper collage, mail book art
and zine work. That means my mail art interests push the fringe of
traditional mail art swaps. Which leads me to postage! Postal fees
have gone up...and continue to do so, depending on the type of art
you're into, the cost of postage and supplies can be significant...and
the TIME and TECHNOLOGY associated with hosting a call well is
extensive. T
>
> he painful part of the whole process is making the investment only
to have participant not follow through....and it's not just the
newbies that don't do what they say they will do...its everyone. I
mean, life happens...but that doesn't reimburse me for printing when I
send someone a 15 page, full color zine that they never recipricate
for...AND they post pictures of it on their blog as if it were there
own...or $8 collaborative art journals that go out and never, ever
come home. I have sent out 11 ($88 bucks!) books to a ring of artist
I know and not one book has come home. There are sightings of a few
from time to time...but the others...they are gone. I took a
chance...and keep hoping they will find their way home, but who knows.
>
> So yes, things are changing. We all try to find ways to mitigate
our losses and alleviate the pain. I don't have a problem with the
shift overall...as long as people are just trying to break even...to
not throw money out the window in the name of mail art. As the
economy shifts, maybe those losses won't be as painful, but for now,
$88 is my gas money for 2 weeks.
>
> I think the Network needs all of the options...pay-to-play, newbie
swaps, Yahoo boards, art blogs, funny money, 4x6, lumpy cards,
collaborative copier collage, mail art books, zines...we need all of
these options. Take what you like, leave what you hate, discuss the
various points in between...but change is good, if for nothing more
than the discussion of what was vs. what can be.
>
> seren
>
> mailart_manekineko <manekineko@...> wrote:
>
> Yeah there seems to be a growing number of people involving money with
> mail art in other ways too...like requiring a fee for participation,
> or outright selling.
>
> I saw someone the other day who sells artistamps on her blog - not
> made for any other purpose - so that the buyers can make 'mail art'.
>
> It seems like there is this alternate universe of people who are doing
> something very different than what I know mail art to be - mostly
> involving cash as a requirement. Is mailart changing, or are these
> people doing something else and calling it 'mail art'?
>
> --manekineko
> http://www.mailart.org
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com , Alice Kitselman <dragonfly@> wrote:
> >
> > Just popped over to the http://www.envelopecollective. (Cool sitecom/
> > by the way) and noticed that these fellows seem to be planning on
> > eventually using the envelopes they have collected to raise money for
> > charity. No specific cause has been identified as yet.
> >
> > Ok, so I know we have pondered about this before, but what do you all
> > think about the rising number of folks who are "selling" mail art for
> > charity???
> >
> > Dragonfly Dream
> > www.dragonflydream.com
> >
> > "It's something wonderful to get a letter. The paper, the stamp, the
> > envelope. It is not just a piece of paper. It is something sacred. "
> >
> > IBRAHIM ISMAIL ZAIDEN, a postman in Baghdad, Iraq.
> >
> > (quoted in the New York Times)
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------- --------- ---
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