Definitely agree, and I would hate to see them go the way of humanware, not saying that they or Apple are bad companies, but both companies responses could definitely be improved a bit.
Sent from my iPhone On Jul 20, 2013, at 1:30 PM, Brian Fischler <blindga...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hey All, > > Funny as the message you got from Apple on Logic is the same exact response I > have gotten for years from Apple about the awful accessibility of Numbers > which I now no longer use. I got blasted on this list for listing several > issues with mountain lion and voiceover when it came out. One of the biggest > being how they reversed webspots in safari. How in the world could this not > have been noticed if they are actually testing accessibility? In Lion you > would hit VO command right bracket and you could go down down a page to the > next webspot, not in Mountain Lion they reversed it which makes no sense as > you click VO command right bracket and instead of going down and to the > right, right bracket takes you to the left, and left bracket takes you to the > right. Ok, simple enough to fix I assumed, and assumed in the next mountain > lion update it would be corrected. Nope, they never fixed what seemed to me > to probably be one of the easiest things to fix. There have been virtually > zero improvements to VO in any mountain lion updates. I will continue using > my mac, and do love my mac, but have been very disappointed with VO > improvements in mountain lion, and will be hesitant to upgrade to maverick as > I am worried or concerned about more idiotic VO things that Apple obviously > doesn't test. I'm sorry but you can't tell me this webspot thing was tested > as anyone who used it before mountain lion would have noticed immediately in > mountain lion how broken it was. Just my thoughts. > On Jul 20, 2013, at 6:25 AM, Chris Moore <moor...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > >> I agree, Mac OS X accessibility sucks. iOS is far superior and the Mac is >> half baked and very buggy. I could never recommend the Mac as a productive >> tool for the blind. >> >> I don't think we should give up though, we need to keep up the pressure. We >> also need to shame Apple by bringing it to the attention of mainstream press >> Let's try and convince someone to publish an article on how crap Voiceover >> is on the Mac. We only ever seem to get a slight update each time a new OS >> comes out. >> >> We need to keep making a noise and more of it. >> >> Chris >> On 20 Jul 2013, at 11:08, Dónal Fitzpatrick <dfitz...@computing.dcu.ie> >> wrote: >> >>> Chris, >>> >>> Dealing with both your mails in one here. I wholeheartedly agree. I've >>> been convinced for almost 2 years that Apple sees their job in terms of >>> accessibility for the blind, specifically on OSX but to a lesser extent on >>> IOS, as done. They can walk into any courtroom and claim, with >>> justification, that they are in compliance with ADA, section 508, EU >>> disability legislation etc. Afraid in my view OSX accessibility is dying >>> on the vine so we may as well accept that what we have now is as good as >>> it's going to get. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Dónal >>> On 20 Jul 2013, at 06:31, "Chris Gilland" <ch...@clgproductions.com> wrote: >>> >>>> And, though I cannot go into the specifics due to NDA, I'll say this, and >>>> under no circumstances anything more. I've reported through bug reporter >>>> many many bugs as I'm an Apple Dev both for IOS and for OSX. In both >>>> cases a lot of the bugs had to do with things in IOS7 and in Mavericks >>>> both which are broken accessibility wise. Again, I can't legally reveal >>>> what these things are, but the response I finally got back directly from >>>> engineering, was something to the effect of we know about this bug, >>>> however, what you are experiencing is exactly the way it's supposed to >>>> behave, so learn how to deal with it. Excuse me, but I paid 100 dollars >>>> to become a dev, not a person whom won't be listen to! Frankly, I'm >>>> almost ready to give engineering a piece of my mind! >>>> >>>> Chris. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah k Alawami" <marri...@gmail.com> >>>> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" <mac-access@mac-access.net> >>>> Sent: Friday, July 19, 2013 1:41 PM >>>> Subject: Re: Logic Pro X accessibility: the view from Cupertino >>>> >>>> >>>> It's the same canned response I received with GB as well. In fact I doubt >>>> they will continue to improve accessibility in GB as I have not ten no >>>> more responses even through the bug tracker I use. >>>> On Jul 19, 2013, at 9:29 AM, Josh Gregory <joshkar...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> This reminds me of humanware, LOL. >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 19, 2013, at 11:45 AM, Dónal Fitzpatrick >>>>> <dfitz...@computing.dcu.ie> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Well this is truly helpful! Really Apple accessibility customer care >>>>>> (or whatever the PR gurus call them these days) have excelled >>>>>> themselves. See the reply in its entirety below: >>>>>> >>>>>> Does my sarcasm come across? >>>>>> >>>>>> Dónal >>>>>> >>>>>> (message starts) >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> Thank you for your email. At this time, support for accessibility in >>>>>> Logic Pro X is limited. We are continuing to work on improving >>>>>> accessibility. We appreciate your feedback while we work towards this >>>>>> goal. >>>>>> Apple Accessibility >>>>>> >>>>>> (message ends) >>>>>> Dr. Dónal Fitzpatrick, >>>>>> School of Computing, >>>>>> Dublin City University, >>>>>> Glasnevin, >>>>>> Dublin 9, Ireland >>>>>> Tel. +353-(0)1-700-8929 >>>>>> fax: +353-(0)1-700-5442 >>>>>> email: dfitzpat (at) computing.dcu.ie >>>>>> >>>>>> Email Disclaimer >>>>>> "This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are >>>>>> intended solely for use by the addressee. Any unauthorised >>>>>> dissemination, distribution or copying of this message and any >>>>>> attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in >>>>>> error, please notify the sender and delete the message. Any views or >>>>>> opinions presented in this e-mail may solely be the views of the author >>>>>> and cannot be relied upon as being those of Dublin City University. >>>>>> E-mail communications such as this cannot be guaranteed to be >>>>>> virus-free, timely, secure or error-free and Dublin City University does >>>>>> not accept liability for any such matters or their consequences. Please >>>>>> consider the environment before printing this e-mail." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> >>>>>> >>>>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to >>>>>> mac-access@mac-access.net >>>>>> >>>>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Mac-Access >>>>>> forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: >>>>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html> >>>>>> or at the public Mail Archive: >>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>. >>>>>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: >>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml> >>>>>> >>>>>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure >>>>>> that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus >>>>>> and worm-free. However, this should in no way replace your own security >>>>>> strategy. We assume neither liability nor responsibility should >>>>>> something unpredictable happen. >>>>>> >>>>>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by >>>>>> visiting the list website at: >>>>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/> >>>>>> >>>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> >>>>> >>>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to >>>>> mac-access@mac-access.net >>>>> >>>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Mac-Access forum >>>>> at either the list's own dedicated web archive: >>>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html> >>>>> or at the public Mail Archive: >>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>. >>>>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: >>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml> >>>>> >>>>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure >>>>> that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus >>>>> and worm-free. However, this should in no way replace your own security >>>>> strategy. We assume neither liability nor responsibility should >>>>> something unpredictable happen. >>>>> >>>>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by >>>>> visiting the list website at: >>>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/> >>>>> >>>> >>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> >>>> >>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to >>>> mac-access@mac-access.net >>>> >>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Mac-Access forum >>>> at either the list's own dedicated web archive: >>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html> >>>> or at the public Mail Archive: >>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>. >>>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: >>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml> >>>> >>>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure >>>> that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and >>>> worm-free. However, this should in no way replace your own security >>>> strategy. We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something >>>> unpredictable happen. >>>> >>>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by >>>> visiting the list website at: >>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/> >>>> >>>> >>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> >>>> >>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to >>>> mac-access@mac-access.net >>>> >>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Mac-Access forum >>>> at either the list's own dedicated web archive: >>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html> >>>> or at the public Mail Archive: >>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>. >>>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: >>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml> >>>> >>>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure >>>> that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and >>>> worm-free. However, this should in no way replace your own security >>>> strategy. We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something >>>> unpredictable happen. >>>> >>>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by >>>> visiting the list website at: >>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/> >>> >>> Dr. Dónal Fitzpatrick, >>> School of Computing, >>> Dublin City University, >>> Glasnevin, >>> Dublin 9, Ireland >>> Tel. +353-(0)1-700-8929 >>> fax: +353-(0)1-700-5442 >>> email: dfitzpat (at) computing.dcu.ie >>> >>> Email Disclaimer >>> "This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are >>> intended solely for use by the addressee. Any unauthorised dissemination, >>> distribution or copying of this message and any attachments is strictly >>> prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the >>> sender and delete the message. Any views or opinions presented in this >>> e-mail may solely be the views of the author and cannot be relied upon as >>> being those of Dublin City University. E-mail communications such as this >>> cannot be guaranteed to be virus-free, timely, secure or error-free and >>> Dublin City University does not accept liability for any such matters or >>> their consequences. Please consider the environment before printing this >>> e-mail." >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> >>> >>> To reply to this post, please address your message to >>> mac-access@mac-access.net >>> >>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Mac-Access forum >>> at either the list's own dedicated web archive: >>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html> >>> or at the public Mail Archive: >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>. >>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml> >>> >>> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure >>> that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and >>> worm-free. However, this should in no way replace your own security >>> strategy. We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something >>> unpredictable happen. >>> >>> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by >>> visiting the list website at: >>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/> >>> >> >> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> >> >> To reply to this post, please address your message to >> mac-access@mac-access.net >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Mac-Access forum at >> either the list's own dedicated web archive: >> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html> >> or at the public Mail Archive: >> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>. >> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: >> <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml> >> >> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that >> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and >> worm-free. However, this should in no way replace your own security >> strategy. We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something >> unpredictable happen. >> >> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by >> visiting the list website at: >> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/> >> > > <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> > > To reply to this post, please address your message to > mac-access@mac-access.net > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Mac-Access forum at > either the list's own dedicated web archive: > <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html> > or at the public Mail Archive: > <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>. > Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: > <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml> > > As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that > the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and > worm-free. However, this should in no way replace your own security > strategy. We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something > unpredictable happen. > > Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by > visiting the list website at: > <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/> > <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html> or at the public Mail Archive: <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: <http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free. However, this should in no way replace your own security strategy. We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something unpredictable happen. Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by visiting the list website at: <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/>
