Hi,
Well, let's continue quietly, with facts :
Le 17 juil. 07 à 12:35, Pavel Janík a écrit :
Yes, the way to post it in *.releases was IMHO too early... and
the $SUBJECT was not very well selected...
Exactly. We agree on this. But this is simply yet another piece
where we all do not agree on one thing. And using IRC meeting is
not the right way to solve this disagreement because not all people
can join it.
As I already wrote , we agreed to proceed like follows :
- present things during IRC meeting,
- keep a week to discuss the point when something is not clear, or
needs opinions, or if somebody strongly disagrees.
Now, some facts (from http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/
Log_Mac_Meeting_25_May_2007 ):
[22:27] <ericb2> mav_eric: it is up to you. Pavel and me do provide
builds
[22:27] macjogi mav_eric
[22:27] <ericb2> mav_eric: mine is not vanilla though
[22:27] <mav_eric> o.k. I'll go and see if I can find an adequate
build on Pavel's FTP
[22:28] macjogi mav_eric
[22:28] <mav_eric> ericb2: btw. Did you compile the PPC build I asked
for?
[22:28] <ericb2> mav_eric: there is one, but too old, and very unstable
[22:28] <ericb2> mav_eric: I'll redo one asap
[22:28] <mav_eric> ericb2: Thank you
[22:29] <ericb2> FYI, my changes : http://eric.bachard.free.fr/mac/
aquavcl/patches/salframe/may07/aquavcl01_ericb.diff
[22:29] <ericb2> + aquafilepicker01 inside
[22:29] <ericb2> nothing else
[22:29] <ericb2> No question(s) ?
[22:30] <ericb2> ok .. let's continue
Later :
[22:36] <mav_eric> ericb2: but for once - please change your point of
view from the one of a dev into the one of a end-user who has no clue
what he can do with a vcl that enables debugging
[22:37] <ericb2> mav_eric: no problem for me, but I feel alone this
evening, and I don't want to decide alone
[22:38] * shaunmcdonald wonders if ooo aqua is ready enough to use
for doing an impress presentation
Later :
...
[22:40] <ericb2> Current Aqua issues list (estimated issues for final
release) : http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/buglist.cgi?keywords=aqua
[22:40] <ericb2> http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/buglist.cgi?
keywords=aqua
[22:40] <ericb2> 143 issues with aqua keyword ; 38 issues FIXED or
WORK or DUP ; 17 started ; 88 NEW
[22:41] <shaunmcdonald> we should note our time line which, if I
remember correctly states that we would release ooo aqua alpha this
month
...
Later :
...
22:42] <ericb2> I propose to write a mail at [EMAIL PROTECTED] list
[22:42] <ericb2> and ask who disagrees, and why
[22:42] <mav_eric> ericb2: shaunmcdonald is right. If we don't get
out an Alpha all the hype about Sun joining us is gone and all PR is
again back to Neo folks
[22:42] <mav_eric> they make fun of us if they don't see anything -
rather sooner than later
[22:42] macjogi mav_eric
[22:42] <mav_eric> ericb2: they don't care about developer fancies
[22:43] <ericb2> ok, I ask for a vote
[22:43] <ericb2> Who agrees to provide alpha , i.e. Pavel and my
builds ( but other are welcome )
[22:43] <ericb2> ?
[22:44] <ismael_> +1
[22:44] <mav_eric> +1
[22:44] <cloph> Nor sure whether one should call it alpha already..
[22:45] <cloph> Providing builds is OK, I'm just not sure about the
tag "alpha"...
[22:45] <ismael_> maybe pre-alpha?
[22:45] <ericb2> cloph: indeed, a lot is missing
[22:45] <ericb2> cloph: I'd like to call it development snapshot
[22:45] <mav_eric> that's fine
[22:45] <mav_eric> development snapshot
[22:45] <ericb2> we need more voices. 2 are not enough
[22:46] <grahamperrin> I agree that development snapshot sounds fine
[22:46] <shaunmcdonald> +1 for alpha build, making sure it runs on a
clean install of Mac OS X
[22:46] <mav_eric> the name is second ranked - it's really important
to get the builds out and in the wild
[22:46] <ismael_> ericb2: +mine (3)
[22:46] <thorsten> +1 for pre-alpha, and getting the builds out
[22:47] <mav_eric> we all here have more or less no plain vanilla os
x installation and we know how to hack around
As summary : ismael, mav_eric, thorsten, grahamperrin,
shaunmcdonald agreed
Later ( the week after the meeting ) :
Because I was not sure, a few days later, I asked Herbert Duerr, his
opinion ( he was not able to attend the meeting ). Herbert suggested
to not use alpha ( I immediately asked Shaun to modify )
And I remember I discussed with other devs on the channel.
The log ( #ooo_macport 29th May ) :
May 29 09:02:34 * hdu ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) has
joined #ooo_macport
May 29 09:03:00 <hdu> Moin
May 29 09:06:13 <ericb2> hdu: hi :)
May 29 09:08:35 <hdu> ericb2: sorry I couldn't attend the Friday chat
(social prime time). I read the transcript and I also agree that we
shouldn't call the build "alpha" until more things work
May 29 09:09:11 <ericb2> hdu: yes, I proposed development snapshot
May 29 09:09:22 <hdu> ericb2: +1
Hdu agreed too.
Please not I didn't vote myself, because I was not sure, and prefered
stay neutral. I hope I forgot nobody.
This happened to me in the past as well with "preview" release,
which was prepared when I was on vacation,
Believe me or not, this is really pure coincidence. Anyway, the
decision to provide the first development snapshot was *common* ( and
not initiated by me btw)
thus we as a Mac port produced build that was not produced by using
established OOo general rules for releases (releases from master,
not with several, combined child workspaces).
No rules were existing for aqua builds : this is completely NEW.
Since new rules have been proposed, but I refused to vote, because I
refused to choose in a hurry, without any -potential- Sun builder
opinion ( I mean e.g. : Jens-Heiner Rechtien, alias blauwal on IRC ).
I almost received hearth attack when I realized that...
I'm sorry for that. It was not our intention :-/
FYI, there is a wiki entry to mix child workspaces : http://
wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/
Merge_Parts_Of_A_CWS_Into_Another_CWS , and this IS POSSIBLE to mix
cws.
Last but not least (and this will be End Of Topic for me here ), we
don't have to regret what we did, because since first alpha snapshot,
we have :
- a very important and positive feedback
- a good list of issues to fix for beta ( maybe more)
And we saved more than a month, providing an early snapshot.
Now, I invite you to stop living in the past, and continue the
incredible effort we all did for the aqua port.
Thanks,
Eric
