This is a tangential, so please forgive me if this seems as if it is the wrong time to bring this up, but I seem to have some Rustaceans who may know more about this than I.
I was recently seeing if there might be a way to improve upon the FFmpeg ports (there are currently three: ffmpeg, fffmpeg-devel and ffmpeg-upstream, though two of them are at the same version presently) to reduce the number of dependencies. While I was able to make a go of it successfully and included an attempt at a Portfile here: https://trac.macports.org/ticket/66424# in the comments Ken suggested that since the current MacPorts for FFmpeg have rust as a dependency, that brings in a flood of other dependencies. To be honest, I am unsure why FFmpeg would require rust (it doesn't in my builds from upstream's repository if cloning from source nor in my Portfile using a versioned release), and it seems as if such things may be better separated into a variant, but even in the occasion where rust is considered required, does rust really have that many dependencies? I guess it is the Kolmogorov complexity reduction spirit in me, but am I crazy for thinking that a dependency audit and minimizing such things might be worthwhile (probably for more than merely FFmpeg, perhaps even the rust MacPort itself)? Thank you for any insights into a rather unrelated matter. On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 5:21 PM Kirill A. Korinsky via macports-dev <[email protected]> wrote: > > Chris, > > Clearly some thought has to be given to how to ensure the dependency tree > does not get too long. We don’t want, when a new OS comes out for it to have > to build tens of rust versions, just to ultimately bootstrap the last one. > That might just be keeping the first bootstrap port, mrustc new enough at all > times such that the list is kept manageable. > > > Unfortunately mrust supports to build rust up to 1.54. > > As soon as upstream of mrust is updated compiler to something never, I'll > update the port and short the tree. > > -- > wbr, Kirill > > On 13. Dec 2022, at 18:16, Christopher Jones <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi, > > On 13 Dec 2022, at 5:07 pm, Kirill A. Korinsky via macports-dev > <[email protected]> wrote: > > David, > > the idea is creating a dependency chain: > > Port rust (version 1.66) depends on rust-1.65 to be build; > Port rust-1.65 depends on rust-1.64 to be build; > Port rust-1.64 depends on rust-1.63 to be build; > ... > Port rust-1.56 depends on rust-1.55 to be build; > Port rust-1.55 depends on rust-1.54 to be build; > Port rust-1.54 depends on mrsutc to be build. > > :) > > When someone would like to add rust 1.67, he need to add port rust-1.66 which > should be used as bootstrap compiler. > > I hate this way, but it is the only way to bootstrap it from scratch. > > > Clearly some thought has to be given to how to ensure the dependency tree > does not get too long. We don’t want, when a new OS comes out for it to have > to build tens of rust versions, just to ultimately bootstrap the last one. > That might just be keeping the first bootstrap port, mrustc new enough at all > times such that the list is kept manageable. > > Chris > > > > When mrust had support new rust, we may cut the tree by removing a lot of > unused ports. > > > -- > wbr, Kirill > > On 13. Dec 2022, at 17:53, David Gilman <[email protected]> wrote: > > The work on mrustc is novel but I don't think it solves the issues we have > here. On modern systems MacPorts uses bootstrap compilers provided by Rust > upstream. MCL's bootstrap compilers are for older systems. > > To update rust, my understanding is that you have to do the usual work of > rebasing patches (my PR), but you also have to provide the binaries for older > systems which I could not provide. > > > On Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 11:07 AM Kirill A. Korinsky via macports-dev > <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Folks, >> >> From the third hand we may build our own bootstrap chain of rust from >> scratch. >> >> Or almost. >> >> We have a https://ports.macports.org/port/mrustc/details/ which is able to >> bootstrap 1.54 rust on x86_64 and arm64. >> >> Unfortunately support of i386 isn't yet finished at upstream. I plan to fix >> it, but it requires time and availability of hardware to test it :) >> >> I do have a commits which implements rust bootstrap by cahin: mrustc -> rust >> 1.54 -> rust 1.55 -> rust 1.56; I can start to open PRs to move step-by-step >> and in month we'll have the last rust via this chain. >> >> -- >> wbr, Kirill >> >> On 13. Dec 2022, at 16:49, Christopher Jones <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> In my opinion, hosting and maintaining these ‘bootstrap’ compilers outside >> the macports infrastructure was a poor choice, for all the reasons you >> mention below. I thought this at the time it was done, and even more so now. >> >> Personally, I would suggest you think about a change to how the rust >> compiler is package, to mirror a bit how things are done with gcc and clang. >> Namely, move to a model where the version is part of the port name, e.g. the >> current one would be called something like rust-1.61. >> >> The main reason for doing this, is adding a new version would that not >> remove the previous version, and thus you could simple use it as the >> bootstrap compiler. So with the above, when you add rust-1.62 that would >> simple configure itself to bootstrap using the macports rust-1.61 port. >> >> Yes, this will require some work to set up. You will need to make all the >> various rust versions installable along side each other, so some tweaking of >> the install prefix would be needed. >> >> One thing I would do differently though to how gcc/clang do things is I >> would try and have a single rust port file, that implements all the versions >> as sub-ports. I suspect most of what each needs can then just be shared , >> such that what needs to be different for each sub-port is actually not that >> much. >> >> Regarding how users of rust then use these ports, there are a couple options >> >> 1. Add a shim port ‘rust’ which simply installs sym-links etc. to the >> ‘current best version’ that mimics the current installation, i.e. in the >> main prefix. If done well, users should then be blind to the changes above. >> 2. Users that want an older rust could explicitly depend on and use a >> specific versioned rust-N >> >> For me, this approach makes a lot more sense than the current way these >> bootstrap compilers are maintained. >> >> cheers Chris >> >> >> On 13 Dec 2022, at 2:57 pm, Herby G <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hello all, >> >> Right now, Rust in MacPorts is severely out of date. It's about 5 versions >> behind the current release, which at the moment is at 1.65.0. In comparison, >> MacPorts Rust is currently at 1.61.0. >> >> As a core language underlying a lot of other ports, many of these ports >> cannot be updated to their latest versions because these versions require >> current versions of Rust. At the time of this writing, 156 ports are being >> built using Rust ( https://ports.macports.org/port/rust/details/ ), some >> quite heavily used by the community, including projects like `git-delta`, >> `bat` and `fd`. >> >> MarcusCalhoun-Lopez's PR here ( >> https://github.com/macports/macports-ports/pull/14277 ) heavily rewrote the >> Rust port to run on older systems, and was very much celebrated and >> endorsed. However, as a result of this PR, the Rust port became a lot more >> complicated, and also introduced a new critical bootstrap compiler >> (referenced in the Rust portgroup here: >> https://github.com/macports/macports-ports/blob/2d39b30a32fcf0f5e1cff04f172e9d55ae08ba48/_resources/port1.0/group/rust-1.0.tcl#L140), >> which is being hosted in MarcusCalhoun-Lopez's personal Github account ( >> https://github.com/MarcusCalhoun-Lopez/rust/releases ). Marcus did try to >> ask about a more official location to host the bootstrap compiler in a >> macports-dev thread: >> https://lists.macports.org/pipermail/macports-dev/2022-April/044243.html , >> but ultimately per the responses he decided to just host it in his personal >> account himself. >> >> Since this massive change to the Rust port at 1.60.0, it's only seen one >> update since then to 1.61.0 ( >> https://github.com/macports/macports-ports/commit/8431ccb48eec4824736eca51f643523356091cd6 >> ) >> >> David Gilman opened a PR recently attempting to update Rust to 1.64.0 ( >> https://github.com/macports/macports-ports/pull/16329 ), but Gilman doesn't >> have access to update the bootstrap compiler, because as of right now, only >> MarcusCalhoun-Lopez knows how to build it, and also it's hosted in Calhoun's >> Github account as mentioned prior. >> >> We need to figure out a more sustainable approach for this bootstrap >> compiler, including how it can be built, and hosting it somewhere where a >> small set of MacPorts maintainers can build and update it so that we can get >> MacPorts Rust back on track. As things are today, only MarcusCalhoun-Lopez >> has all the pieces required to update this port, and there's been no word >> from him for months now as the Rust port has fallen further and further >> behind. Being such a critical core language port, it may make sense to >> create a repo within the MacPorts Github organization where a set of >> maintainers can host and update the Rust bootstrap compiler. >> >> >> > > >
