Hello, Here's a URL people may be interested in. http://www.senderogroup.com/VisionFree/
This is a step in the right direction. Chris On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:41:27 -0400 patrickneazer <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello Chris and all: > > Agreed. > On Aug 12, 2009, at 11:40 AM, Chris Blouch wrote: > > > With most mainstream popular products there is huge value in not > > only the thing itself but in the universe that surrounds it. The > > iPod being a case in point. There are jillions of add ons and public > > shared community knowledge which extending the value and uses far > > beyond what maker originally envisioned. This is the mainstream or > > universal access argument. If you can simply make an existing thing > > accessible you get the universe that goes with it for free. The > > VictorReader Stream may be a fine product, but being a niche product > > it will never have the vast array of cases, docking stations, FM > > tuners, chargers etc. Adding a screen reader to a PC is another big > > example which connected another audience to a large existing > > universe of tools. > > > > One of my favorite authors was Isaac Asimov who wrote a lot about > > robots, including some basic tenants about behavior and form. He > > postulated that they would have to be human form to work with the > > universe of existing devices and objects that were designed for our > > use. To make a robot that could only interface with special robot > > tools was doomed to failure in the long run. I think this idea can > > have application in accessible technology. Creating helper devices > > (tools) that work for all folks, not just blind, deaf, low > > cognition, ambulatory or whatever will bring the greatest long term > > success. > > > > Of course everybody's favorite example of universal design is curb > > cuts which not only make places wheelchair accessible but are also > > great for baby strollers and shopping carts. I even know one guy who > > uses Voiceover on his laptop read off long reports while he is > > driving to work. Why not? Universal design goes both ways and I'm > > sure he wouldn't have sprung for Jaws just to do that. > > > > CB > > > > Chris Hofstader wrote: > >> > >> No! If we expect mainstream companies, like Apple for instance, to > >> follow the philosophy of universal design, then we need to make > >> sure they know how they can improve for our segment of the universe. > >> > >> With Apple, we compared VO to JAWS; iPod to Zen Stone and Victor > >> Stream and iPhone to Mobile Speak on the AT side and the LG with > >> its built in "accessibility." > >> > >> As there is a universe of products, we need to measure them against > >> each other. Navigon, in my opinion, has a number of things it does > >> much better than the AT solutions (will show up in a blog entry > >> soon) but Mobile Speak does some other things better. For > >> instance, if one wants to use an iPhone, Navigon is just about the > >> only solution. It also costs a whole lot less and, in my opinion, > >> is vastly more precise. > >> > >> All technology needs to be compared on a reasonably level set of > >> criteria applied to all solutions, mainstream or blind guy ghetto. > >> > >> cdh > >> On Aug 12, 2009, at 7:19 AM, patrickneazer wrote: > >> > >>> Hello Krister and all: > >>> > >>> I would have just written I agree in this message though that > >>> would chew up unnecessary bandwidth and not really explain > >>> anything and no I am not taking a shop at the moderators with that > >>> statement because I actually agree with the policy. I am not > >>> usually a get it off my chester though ... > >>> > >>> I do believe that when critiques are made against mainstream > >>> products and the evaluative measure for the critique is how it > >>> measures up to a community specific product, that is like > >>> comparing apples to oranges. What it also does is defeat the > >>> purpose of mainstream developers wanting to make things > >>> accessible. Why go out and make things accessible when what seems > >>> to be wanted is a blind specific product that already exists for > >>> $70. > >>> > >>> I personally am tired of the argument that navigon is good for the > >>> $70. Navigon is a good app that actually is accessible. Now, I and > >>> others might have to access the information in a manner which is > >>> new or initially uncomfortable though that does not make the > >>> product inaccessible or poorly designed. What it does make the > >>> product is open to individual evaluation.In short, it is perfectly > >>> acceptable for a product to fit one persons needs, not fit a > >>> second persons needs, and still be both a good product which can > >>> always be improved. > >>> > >>> Opened myself up for trouble (grin). > >>> > >>> > >>> On Aug 12, 2009, at 5:12 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> Ok, Il moderatore, i know this is off-topic somewhat but i as > >>>> they say > >>>> in online business promoting mails, have to get it out of my chest > >>>> before i explode! I think it's a bit unfair to compare standard gps > >>>> solutions with those made strictly for blind folks and if Navigon > >>>> as a > >>>> standard gps solution makes a very good job of helping us around > >>>> the > >>>> place, it's great! What really would've been great would be if > >>>> someone > >>>> could do a podcast of a navigon session so that one may here it in > >>>> action, rather like people have done with Wayfinder access and > >>>> Mobile > >>>> geo. > >>>> /Krister > >>>> > >>>> 11 aug 2009 kl. 14.10 skrev Chris G: > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi, > >>>>> FYI Humanware Trekker is not using the Sendero SDK. > >>>>> > >>>>> Chris > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:01:26 +0100 > >>>>> william lomas <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> what will the update in december contain for navigon? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 10 Aug 2009, at 18:50, Chris Hofstader wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> EI don't do podcasts. I will write some blog entries on this > >>>>>>> stuff > >>>>>>> soon (www.blindconfidential.blogspot.com). > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Of those available to blinks, Wayfinder is the one I know the > >>>>>>> least > >>>>>>> about as I only used it for a month or so about a year ago. > >>>>>>> Almost > >>>>>>> all of the players in the AT biz are using the same Sendero > >>>>>>> engine. > >>>>>>> So, Humanware, Nuance, Freedom Scientific, Code Factory are all > >>>>>>> about > >>>>>>> the same underneath but have different UI that one can pick > >>>>>>> from. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Just based on my minimal experience with Navigon, though, I > >>>>>>> would > >>>>>>> suggest you stick with Wayfinder/Access until they put out an > >>>>>>> update > >>>>>>> expected in December. Navigon is fine if you don't already have > >>>>>>> something but I wouldn't scrap your current solution quite yet. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> These opinions are mine and mine alone and are the result of > >>>>>>> messing > >>>>>>> around with Navigon for less than two days and I've been using > >>>>>>> Mobile > >>>>>>> Geo very frequently since it came out and it is my favorite > >>>>>>> but that > >>>>>>> is likely because it is the one with which I'm most familiar. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> cdh > >>>>>>> On Aug 10, 2009, at 9:40 AM, william lomas wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> can you do a podcast on navigon so ican hear it? at present > >>>>>>>> i am a > >>>>>>>> wayfinder user and want to "hear" how it compares > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 10 Aug 2009, at 14:09, Chris Hofstader wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Hi, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> While I have had and enjoyed my iPhone for about a month and a > >>>>>>>>> half, I > >>>>>>>>> hadn't, before yesterday, needed to switch between running > >>>>>>>>> tasks. > >>>>>>>>> Specifically, I was following directions to our local YWCA > >>>>>>>>> using > >>>>>>>>> Navigon yesterday. I received a phone call and, after hanging > >>>>>>>>> up, I > >>>>>>>>> couldn't figure out how to get back to Navigon to look at some > >>>>>>>>> things. Navigon continued giving me directions but I could > >>>>>>>>> not > >>>>>>>>> get > >>>>>>>>> back to its interface where VoiceOver reads the street names > >>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>> such. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I looked in the iPhone manual and searched on "task > >>>>>>>>> switching" and > >>>>>>>>> "background task" using VO's search facility as well as the > >>>>>>>>> one in > >>>>>>>>> Preview and didn't find anything. I can't believe that this > >>>>>>>>> would > >>>>>>>>> be > >>>>>>>>> too difficult but I can't find it in the manual given the > >>>>>>>>> search > >>>>>>>>> criteria I can think up. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Any help will be appreciated. I'm going back into the > >>>>>>>>> manual to > >>>>>>>>> see > >>>>>>>>> what I might be able to find. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Happy Hacking, > >>>>>>>>> cdh > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Chris G <[email protected]> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> Take good care and I wish you enough. > >>> > >>> Love > >>> > >>> Me > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > Take good care and I wish you enough. > > Love > > Me > > > > -- Chris G <[email protected]> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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