It would also be nice, albeit unmeasurable, that Apple would be rewarded 
for implementing universal design. I could then point to it as an 
example of what happens when a company does things right. I have lots of 
examples of when companies do things wrong (Target, PriceLine, Ramada 
and recently CVS). I'd like more carrot and less stick when I do 
presentations to developers or at conferences.

CB

Chris Hofstader wrote:
> Hello Chris the Other,
>
> I agree with your thoughts on universal design.  Six or seven years 
> ago we found that a lot of rehab counselors were downloading daily 
> content from audible.com and listening on a PAC Mate as they went from 
> client to client in their cars.  this, I suppose, was a bit of 
> accidental universal design.
>
> Apple seems to have really figured it out in the iPod Shuffle where 
> the product can be used by almost everyone straight out of the box and 
> no features are inaccessible to any portion of a large universe of 
> potential users.
>
> I hope that Apple's leadership on this front will drag along other 
> mainstream players and that we'll start to see the blinkosphere expand 
> along with the universe.
>
> cdh
>  
>
> On Aug 12, 2009, at 11:40 AM, Chris Blouch wrote:
>
>> With most mainstream popular products there is huge value in not only 
>> the thing itself but in the universe that surrounds it. The iPod 
>> being a case in point. There are jillions of add ons and public 
>> shared community knowledge which extending the value and uses far 
>> beyond what maker originally envisioned. This is the mainstream or 
>> universal access argument. If you can simply make an existing thing 
>> accessible you get the universe that goes with it for free. The 
>> VictorReader Stream may be a fine product, but being a niche product 
>> it will never have the vast array of cases, docking stations, FM 
>> tuners, chargers etc. Adding a screen reader to a PC is another big 
>> example which connected another audience to a large existing universe 
>> of tools.
>>
>> One of my favorite authors was Isaac Asimov who wrote a lot about 
>> robots, including some basic tenants about behavior and form. He 
>> postulated that they would have to be human form to work with the 
>> universe of existing devices and objects that were designed for our 
>> use. To make a robot that could only interface with special robot 
>> tools was doomed to failure in the long run. I think this idea can 
>> have application in accessible technology. Creating helper devices 
>> (tools) that work for all folks, not just blind, deaf, low cognition, 
>> ambulatory or whatever will bring the greatest long term success.
>>
>> Of course everybody's favorite example of universal design is curb 
>> cuts which not only make places wheelchair accessible but are also 
>> great for baby strollers and shopping carts. I even know one guy who 
>> uses Voiceover on his laptop read off long reports while he is 
>> driving to work. Why not? Universal design goes both ways and I'm 
>> sure he wouldn't have sprung for Jaws just to do that.
>>
>> CB
>>
>> Chris Hofstader wrote:
>>> No!  If we expect mainstream companies, like Apple for instance, to 
>>> follow the philosophy of universal design, then we need to make sure 
>>> they know how they can improve for our segment of the universe.
>>>
>>> With Apple, we compared VO to JAWS; iPod to Zen Stone and Victor 
>>> Stream and iPhone to Mobile Speak on the AT side and the LG with its 
>>> built in "accessibility."  
>>>
>>> As there is a universe of products, we need to measure them against 
>>> each other.  Navigon, in my opinion, has a number of things it does 
>>> much better than the AT solutions (will show up in a blog entry 
>>> soon) but Mobile Speak does some other things better.  For instance, 
>>> if one wants to use an iPhone, Navigon is just about the only 
>>> solution.  It also costs a whole lot less and, in my opinion, is 
>>> vastly more precise.
>>>
>>> All technology needs to be compared on a reasonably level set of 
>>> criteria applied to all solutions, mainstream or blind guy ghetto.
>>>
>>> cdh
>>> On Aug 12, 2009, at 7:19 AM, patrickneazer wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Krister and all:
>>>>
>>>> I would have just written I agree in this message though that would 
>>>> chew up unnecessary bandwidth and not really explain anything and 
>>>> no I am not taking a shop at the moderators with that statement 
>>>> because I actually agree with the policy. I am not usually a get it 
>>>> off my chester though ... 
>>>>
>>>> I do believe that when critiques are made against mainstream 
>>>> products and the evaluative measure for the critique is how it 
>>>> measures up to a community specific product, that is like comparing 
>>>> apples to oranges. What it also does is defeat the purpose of 
>>>> mainstream developers wanting to make things accessible. Why go out 
>>>> and make things accessible when what seems to be wanted is a blind 
>>>> specific product that already exists for $70.
>>>>
>>>> I personally am tired of the argument that navigon is good for the 
>>>> $70. Navigon is a good app that actually is accessible. Now, I and 
>>>> others might have to access the information in a manner which is 
>>>> new or initially uncomfortable though that does not make the 
>>>> product inaccessible or poorly designed. What it does make the 
>>>> product is open to individual evaluation.In short, it is perfectly 
>>>> acceptable for a product to fit one persons needs, not fit a second 
>>>> persons needs, and still be both a good product which can always be 
>>>> improved.
>>>>
>>>> Opened myself up for trouble (grin).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 12, 2009, at 5:12 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ok, Il moderatore, i know this is off-topic somewhat but i as they 
>>>>> say  
>>>>> in online business promoting mails, have to get it out of my chest  
>>>>> before i explode! I think it's a bit unfair to compare standard gps  
>>>>> solutions with those made strictly for blind folks and if Navigon 
>>>>> as a  
>>>>> standard gps solution makes a very good job of helping us around the  
>>>>> place, it's great! What really would've been great would be if 
>>>>> someone  
>>>>> could do a podcast of a navigon session so that one may here it in  
>>>>> action, rather like people have done with Wayfinder access and 
>>>>> Mobile  
>>>>> geo.
>>>>> /Krister
>>>>>
>>>>> 11 aug 2009 kl. 14.10 skrev Chris G:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> FYI Humanware Trekker is not using the Sendero SDK.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:01:26 +0100
>>>>>> william lomas <[email protected] 
>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> what will the update in december contain for navigon?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10 Aug 2009, at 18:50, Chris Hofstader wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> EI don't do podcasts.  I will write some blog entries on this stuff
>>>>>>>> soon (www.blindconfidential.blogspot.com 
>>>>>>>> <http://www.blindconfidential.blogspot.com>).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Of those available to blinks, Wayfinder is the one I know the least
>>>>>>>> about as I only used it for a month or so about a year ago.  Almost
>>>>>>>> all of the players in the AT biz are using the same Sendero engine.
>>>>>>>> So, Humanware, Nuance, Freedom Scientific, Code Factory are all  
>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>> the same underneath but have different UI that one can pick from.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just based on my minimal experience with Navigon, though, I would
>>>>>>>> suggest you stick with Wayfinder/Access until they put out an 
>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>> expected in December.  Navigon is fine if you don't already have
>>>>>>>> something but I wouldn't scrap your current solution quite yet.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> These opinions are mine and mine alone and are the result of 
>>>>>>>> messing
>>>>>>>> around with Navigon for less than two days and I've been using  
>>>>>>>> Mobile
>>>>>>>> Geo very frequently since it came out and it is my favorite but 
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> is likely because it is the one with which I'm most familiar.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> cdh
>>>>>>>> On Aug 10, 2009, at 9:40 AM, william lomas wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> can you do a podcast on navigon so  ican hear it? at present i 
>>>>>>>>> am a
>>>>>>>>> wayfinder user and want to "hear" how it compares
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 10 Aug 2009, at 14:09, Chris Hofstader wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> While I have had and enjoyed my iPhone for about a month and a
>>>>>>>>>> half, I
>>>>>>>>>> hadn't, before yesterday, needed to switch between running tasks.
>>>>>>>>>> Specifically, I was following directions to our local YWCA using
>>>>>>>>>> Navigon yesterday.  I received a phone call and, after hanging  
>>>>>>>>>> up, I
>>>>>>>>>> couldn't figure out how to get back to Navigon to look at some
>>>>>>>>>> things.  Navigon continued giving me directions but I could not  
>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>> back to its interface where VoiceOver reads the street names and
>>>>>>>>>> such.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I looked in the iPhone manual and searched on "task 
>>>>>>>>>> switching" and
>>>>>>>>>> "background task" using VO's search facility as well as the 
>>>>>>>>>> one in
>>>>>>>>>> Preview and didn't find anything.  I can't believe that this 
>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> too difficult but I can't find it in the manual given the search
>>>>>>>>>> criteria I can think up.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Any help will be appreciated.  I'm going back into the manual 
>>>>>>>>>> to  
>>>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>>>> what I might be able to find.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Happy Hacking,
>>>>>>>>>> cdh
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Chris G <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Take good care and I wish you enough.
>>>>
>>>> Love 
>>>>
>>>> Me 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> >

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