Hi Alex, Yes, I am with you on the potentials of this type of device, the applications that can come out of it are innumerable. it can help with orientation, being notified quickly and checking the notification etc but there’s another problem here, mainly because the watch had a lot of hours spent on for sighted users. The touch screen is the first proof. This means not that much time was spent for what I like to call the “functional ergonomy” of the watch in regards to visual impairment. Yes, the watch is supposed to be a seconds on off interaction that normally would make things easier for us. And it would be a great way of notifying us we are getting to a cross roads, or the shop we tagged on our locator is close by, any number of things to help us navigate. In fact, it would be good to have a separate thread talking about what we imagine is possible or potential with this, then this can spread out for apple to perhaps listen to those who have baught the watch this time around.
Another line I follow you with is the 1st generation issues and kinks most products have. I had the first iphone and loved it. So much so that when I lost my sight, I still used braille stickers on the screen to access my standard apps before the 3gs came out with voice over. But it had battery issues. the ipad was a cool concept but it was seriously bulky. health trackers were cool but they lacked compatibility or other such things. But I would like people to remember that we, as visually impaired individuals, already have a restricted set of entertainment we can have. Whether lack of video games for the blind, I mean real ones not some throw bananas around stuff. Or social gathering opportunities, going to festivals, outdoors and hiking, camping etc (this could be a great idea for the watch, orient us in nature). And due to these restrictions, we tend to go straight for whatever will stimulate us a bit. And become almost cyborgs by consntantly fiddling with our phones and now watches. Life isn’t about this. it’s not about whether I can pick a notification a second faster than if I did it on my phone. There are two things that would nullify any concept of watch wearing. One is a proper bone induction earphone taht allows us to hear the environment as much as what is going on the device. Second is the proper set of apps with the proper sound paradigms to make things more intuitive. Yes, apple has made voice over for us and I can’t be thankful enough. However, standards or design paradigms must evolve, and there are millions of ways to provide notigications with sound cues and haptic feedback to mean one thing or the other. Therefore we shouldn’t pigeon hole ourselves in the voice over paradigm. Sorry for this longer mail, but the point is: I recommend waiting a bit more than shelling out all this cash unless you are in the U.S or have a contact there that can send it to you, bypassing the horrible australian prices. Cheers, Yuma Antoine Decaux "Light has no value without darkness" Mob: +61 410732547 Skype: Shainobi1 twitter: http://www.twitter.com/triple7 > On 11/04/2015, at 11:48 am, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com> wrote: > > Sorry, I've misrepresented my own position. I'm not sold by the marketing, > and I'm not buying a Watch right now. I, too, will await generation 2; let > the early adopters figure out the use cases, let Apple trick out the next > Watch with way more than this one has, and fix the bugs the testers couldn't > catch. I'm not interested in the new Macbook either, for the same reasons. > > All that said, none of us have one, and I wouldn't be as quick as you to > categorically state that this device can't add to my daily life and will just > be a burden I'll soon regret. I can definitely see the use cases for it, and > I can see how it could be incredibly useful. As one great article recently > put it, and I'm paraphrasing here: the Mac is for interactions of several > minutes to several hours; the iPhone is for interactions of a few minutes, > and until now, a few seconds. If you can deal with something in seconds, or > just need a reminder about where to turn or what ingredient comes next, the > Watch fills that gap. The iPhone isn't going away, it's being moved to where > it fits best: the longer, but not too long, interactions. The Watch is there > for the quick response to a text, or a note to a buddy, or a glance to see > what your calendar has for the rest of the day. Does your phone have all > this? Yes, of course it does, but which is easier: tapping a watch, or > hitting the button on your phone, touching the status bar (which I still > sometimes miss), doing a three finger swipe down, and finally finding the > Calendar heading, assuming you didn't also need to switch from Notifications > to Today? > > I'm rambling, I know. I guess my point is simply this: the Watch won't be for > everyone--no product is--but I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss it > completely. See what the in-depth reviews say, see what people on this list > and AppleVis report, and give it a fair shot. >> On Apr 10, 2015, at 9:35 PM, Yuma Antoine Decaux <jamy...@gmail.com >> <mailto:jamy...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Hi Alex, >> >> You seem to miss the point. I am an apple buyer since its early days. >> Marketing was always there, and its the reason why I have stuck to it. But >> it has evolved to forget that it’s supposed to not follow the microsoft >> route, with products loosing focus and having that right balance between >> useability, features and experience. To say the least, adding another thing >> to charge which itself costs more than the phone to me is ridiculous. If its >> not to you, then maybe I’m missing something you know better than me, but to >> this point, you don’t have one. >> >> Second, I’m recommending to wait for the next installment. And I’m also here >> to give my experience of how it felt. And it felt like a very cheesy >> marketing stunt, the waiting period, the myth and hype behind, etc. I won’t >> be surprised to know that a lot of people will feel a bit ripped off with >> this price tag and the features it has. if you want to complicate your life >> with more gadgets that add a few more things to your life, suit yourself my >> friend. But My point about always having my phone on plugs when I walk out >> sticks. And therefore it makes no sense to buy a wrist watch, especially one >> that needs taking on and off, that can’t take a shower, that you need to be >> careful with, when your phone’s in the pocket and does 10 times more than >> the watch. Like I said, if it was slick and discreet, not flashy as it has >> been made this time around, maybe my perspective would be different. >> >> Finally, if you’re sold by something with marketing alone, I feel sorry for >> you mate. But I’d rather be pessimistic about anything anyone is trying to >> sell me. >> >> Cheers for now >> >> >> Yuma Antoine Decaux >> "Light has no value without darkness" >> Mob: +61 410732547 >> Skype: Shainobi1 >> twitter: http://www.twitter.com/triple7 <http://www.twitter.com/triple7> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On 11/04/2015, at 4:34 am, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com >>> <mailto:mehg...@icloud.com>> wrote: >>> >>> I'm hearing that part of your problem with this device is that Apple has >>> marketed it and drummed up interest? What kind of tech manufacturer >>> wouldn't do this? To sell things, which is the goal of any company like >>> Apple, you have to make people want what you have. If your product can't >>> stand up, it won't sell and the company will figure something else out, and >>> if it can, you have a hit. Saying that Apple has made people want this >>> Watch is like saying that a restaurant makes you want their food. >>> >>> The price is high, yes, but that's Apple. Why do people pay extra for >>> iPhones, iPads Airport stations, or Macs? Because the hardware is solid, >>> the customer service is second to none, and many people have brand loyalty >>> on top of that. This is no different. If you don't want to pay the price >>> for an iPhone, you can find an Android phone that has most of the same >>> features but isn't as expensive, yet may not last as long or be as >>> versatile. Similarly, if you don't want an Apple Watch, there's the Gear >>> Watch, the Peble, and others to choose from, though none are accessible. >>> Yes, there's one smartwatch with basic TTS built in, but it can't compare >>> to VoiceOver at the moment. >>> >>> I have no idea how this Watch will do, and I'm among those choosing to wait >>> until the next generation. All I'm saying is that you can't fault Apple for >>> doing what they do--marketing their products and charging their usual >>> prices. >>>> On Apr 10, 2015, at 12:51 PM, Yuma Antoine Decaux <jamy...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:jamy...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi All, points taken but they don’t sell me on it. The price is just >>>> criminal. >>>> >>>> I would rather have something that altogether gets rid of the screen and >>>> is used as a notification/orientation/sensor device that can send relevant >>>> information to the iphone. Case of having bluetooth earbuds or earphones >>>> is adding yet another device to charge. I’m basing all of my opinions on >>>> elegance not only of material choice but also elegance in lifestyle. >>>> Keeping a tab on your device charges is not elegance, it’s accounting. >>>> >>>> I agree that there can be interesting applications with health and motion >>>> but again, this could be placed as a very nice little slab necklace type >>>> thing, like maori necklaces say, getting rid of energy sucking features >>>> such as touch screens and the yada yada on the current incarnation of the >>>> watch. Sometimes it makes no sense to cram a technology taht seems to be >>>> useful for one thing and paste it all over the place. In fact, I’m working >>>> on arduino prototypes attaching all sorts of sensors to make such a >>>> device, obviously its bulkier than apple stuff for now, but these I’m >>>> creating for proof of concept, not marketability. >>>> >>>> In any case, apple watch is something that has been overly and >>>> strategically marketed, and listening to cook and ive hyping the crap out >>>> of it already signals there’s manipulation in this. It seems more likely >>>> that the second or even third reincarnations will be a much better view >>>> closer to what people imagine in a smart watch. Take for instance the >>>> simple fact that star trek had thought of dissasembling atom by atom a >>>> human person to beam them up between ship and planet, but their freaking >>>> communicators were like archaic one button talkie walkies. So we have tech >>>> evolution on our side, but this watch is made up of fanfare and sales >>>> pitching. >>>> >>>> Really, it doesn’t matter if the watch has 2 gigs of music on it. I have >>>> 64 gigs on my phone. Siri might be cool to talk to asking for stuff, but >>>> as I said, you can only really do that in a quiet place. This is the catch >>>> 22. In a quiet public place, you sound stupid asking stuff to the phone, >>>> plus its nicer if people around weren’t hearing what you’re saying. >>>> Second, again plugging earphones on a watch is a cyborg manifesto gone >>>> mass public commercial. It’s vulgar. >>>> >>>> Anyway, please do give some accounts on your experiences once its in your >>>> hands. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Yuma Antoine Decaux >>>> "Light has no value without darkness" >>>> Mob: +61 410732547 >>>> Skype: Shainobi1 >>>> twitter: http://www.twitter.com/triple7 <http://www.twitter.com/triple7> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 11/04/2015, at 2:21 am, Deb Lewis <deblewi...@gmail.com >>>>> <mailto:deblewi...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I'm looking forward to the connections to the health apps. I know >>>>> there are other devices that do this but over time I do expect this >>>>> may be the most accessible and integrated. >>>>> >>>>> On 4/10/15, Jonathan Mosen <jmo...@mosen.org <mailto:jmo...@mosen.org>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Hi Yuma, thanks for sharing your experiences. That was an interesting >>>>>> read. >>>>>> I ordered my Apple Watch a few hours ago, not an easy task because it's >>>>>> not >>>>>> being sold here in New Zealand at launch. I ordered it because I've >>>>>> received >>>>>> a lot of customer inquiries about whether I'll write a book about it, and >>>>>> whether I can provide training, so for me, the watch is a business >>>>>> expense. >>>>>> If I didn't have a business reason for buying one, I reckon I'd sit this >>>>>> one >>>>>> out. I have yet to see much of a use case for this product at all. I >>>>>> wear a >>>>>> Braille watch, and I love being able to tell the time quietly and >>>>>> unobtrusively, especially in boring meetings when I'm counting the >>>>>> minutes. >>>>>> Like you, I walk around with my phone connected to earbuds, or in my case >>>>>> cabled to my hearing aids. My phone is in my pocket at all times, and by >>>>>> good use of notification sounds, I know when there's a notification I >>>>>> really >>>>>> need to attend to right now. >>>>>> I also use a Focus 14 Blue Braille display which is around my neck, so I >>>>>> already have a great, silent tool for checking things without taking the >>>>>> phone out of my pocket if that's what I want. >>>>>> When I use the watch, I may feel differently and decide I can't imagine >>>>>> life >>>>>> without it, but right now I don't see why I'd feel that way. >>>>>> I would like to just make a few small points based on the research I've >>>>>> done >>>>>> to date, in case people are still on the fence. >>>>>> You're right, the watch's functionality is limited without a phone, but >>>>>> it's >>>>>> not completely useless. For example, Apple Pay works stand-alone. You can >>>>>> have up to 2GB of music stored locally on the device, and there is >>>>>> storage >>>>>> for photos as well. Finally, you can connect to a wi-fi hotspot directly >>>>>> from the watch and use Siri, send iMessages, and yes, heartbeats too. >>>>>> One thing I think could be potentially useful about the watch is the >>>>>> haptic >>>>>> feedback you can receive when using it in conjunction with Maps. The >>>>>> feedback on your wrist gives you directions without having to listen to >>>>>> instructions. For people who are nervous about having their ears covered >>>>>> or >>>>>> distracted by speech, this could be good. >>>>>> I also wonder about the benefits of haptic feedback for people with >>>>>> hearing >>>>>> impairments. For example, if you charged it sometime during the day, >>>>>> maybe >>>>>> while you're at the office, you could wear it at night and get an alarm >>>>>> that >>>>>> taps you on the wrist to wake you. That said, I'm probably clutching at >>>>>> straws a bit with this one as there are far cheaper products that will >>>>>> wake >>>>>> you with an alarm you don't need to hear. >>>>>> You can also pair the watch with Bluetooth headsets although I understand >>>>>> there may be some issues at launch with some. >>>>>> I'll look forward to holding one in my hands, it will b interesting to >>>>>> see >>>>>> what other list members think. >>>>>> Jonathan Mosen >>>>>> Mosen Consulting >>>>>> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training >>>>>> http://Mosen.org <http://mosen.org/> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/04/2015, at 2:37 am, Yuma Antoine Decaux <jamy...@gmail.com >>>>>>> <mailto:jamy...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just wanted to tell you guys what my first impression of an apple watch, >>>>>>> as a design cue, on the instant the apple sales girl handed it to me. It >>>>>>> almost felt as though she was unsure whether to hand it over after >>>>>>> talking >>>>>>> market stuff about it, and after a few tos and fros, I had the suspicion >>>>>>> she had the same idea. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's thick. Imagine a large toffee. with a button and a digital crown on >>>>>>> the side. I was first handed the links bracelet model. And the truth >>>>>>> is, I >>>>>>> will wait for a way slimmer version. No matter the functionalities of >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> thing. The demo it gave, as we couldn't test it out there and then, gave >>>>>>> some impressions on the haptic. Sure, it gives you a very discreet tick >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> the wrist. Wow. Really? Amazing technology. Feel the sarcasm. But what >>>>>>> still is stamped with hot iron in my mind is not this tick, but how ugly >>>>>>> it felt in my hand with its thickness. Imagine thick enough so that you >>>>>>> have a space on the sides of your wrist with both links and sports >>>>>>> bands. >>>>>>> You can fit a cigarette on either side. You just can't find a position >>>>>>> that leaves the bracelet flat over your wrist all around. Even that >>>>>>> fancy >>>>>>> metal mesh bracelet had a space. What struck me was that I when I said >>>>>>> "This thing is rather thick", the sales girl replied with a "Yeah, I was >>>>>>> really surprised too". I think this must have been a deal breaker for a >>>>>>> lot of people going in there to see it. I couldn't hear any oos or aahs >>>>>>> anywhere. Checking both sizes of this thing, there's not much difference >>>>>>> and both just feel like fat unattractive toffees that come with diferent >>>>>>> bands which don't add anything to the watch culture. Having had watches >>>>>>> before in my time, I much preffer having nothing on my wrist than this >>>>>>> hunk of technology that seems to have a fatal bullimic inclination due >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> battery restrictions. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The second shocker for me was that this little piece of thing which is >>>>>>> useless without an iphone actually costs more than an iphone 6 here in >>>>>>> Australia. Not only is it a second deal breaker, it's a total insult to >>>>>>> australian consumers. From 500 something mentioned during the >>>>>>> presentation >>>>>>> to over 1600 aus dollars here, with 200 extra for the space black >>>>>>> version. >>>>>>> It's a complete ripoff. And I weigh my words. See why below: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1-It does nothing without pairing it with an iphone 5 or more. It's >>>>>>> totally useless when your phone dies, if it doesn't die before it. >>>>>>> 2-The fancy shmancy terms used like digital crown are a gimmick beyond >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> slickest of car salespersons. I have less respect for Jimmy Ive now. >>>>>>> It's >>>>>>> just a freaking rotating button which you can also push. Man this is the >>>>>>> future (sarcasm again) >>>>>>> 3-You have to charge it daily, along with the phone. If you have a guide >>>>>>> dogm another pet, uni, etc the list goes on, why consider an extra daily >>>>>>> chore like this for not much? >>>>>>> 4-To make it cost more than an iphone, which in all technological, >>>>>>> functional and complexity terms has more to give than a watch is a >>>>>>> blatant >>>>>>> disrespect of customers as well as an inherent belief from these people >>>>>>> that once hooked, a stupid apple customer will buy anything that comes >>>>>>> out >>>>>>> just from the hype driven events. >>>>>>> 5-As blind phone users, I believe This is useless anyway. let me develop >>>>>>> below. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I jack my phone with headphones when I walk around, either to tell siri >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> open ariadne gps which gives me directions, or call this or do that. I >>>>>>> have the handy mic button and siri works for simple tasks like this. An >>>>>>> apple watch won't bring anything better to my experience in the active >>>>>>> set. Having the phone talk to me while i walk is the worst geek nerd >>>>>>> interpretation nightmare I could think of, and I would have to lean the >>>>>>> hand toward my ear anyway because of background noise, and I won't make >>>>>>> myself look like a sick puppy with a flebo on my wrist with earbuds. And >>>>>>> you need to pull your arm up to do anything to it. Another thing the >>>>>>> sales >>>>>>> girl told me which just completely killed it, in a very comical way, was >>>>>>> that apple advised that they wanted watch users not to use the watch >>>>>>> over >>>>>>> 30 seconds at a time, as they thought it was the benchmark limit at >>>>>>> which >>>>>>> point your arm gets tired. Talk about computer human interaction >>>>>>> research >>>>>>> (another sarcasm). This was one other of their excuses for battery time >>>>>>> that basically sucked shit (excuse my french) and providing weird >>>>>>> marketing justifications to still try and make the watch appealing. >>>>>>> However, by that time, the sales girl knew she smelled better than this >>>>>>> thing, than the watch, that I was not sold on the design factor (as a >>>>>>> blind user and former 3D modeler), I really didn't find this good. at >>>>>>> all. >>>>>>> My impression was that it would be a longer rectangular shape, slimmer >>>>>>> along the arm and longer over the wrist, slightly bent, pretty much >>>>>>> marrying the shape of the wrist, and giving more expansion to the >>>>>>> battery. >>>>>>> Seriously, go to an apple store and touch the thing. It's ugly to the >>>>>>> touch. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In the end, I told the sales girl I wanted a pair of those apple >>>>>>> earbuds, >>>>>>> the standard cheapo ones, and please send me to the genius bar. I love >>>>>>> their genius as everytime I have an issue on my iphone 6 (twice this >>>>>>> year, >>>>>>> first one being that it died inexplicably when I woke up one morning, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> this time it bent in my jeans pocket and I couldn't use the headphones >>>>>>> anymore) have the genius of just replacing your phone. Final irony is >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> I had no idea it was bent but one of the staff members noticed it. And >>>>>>> obviously the restore backup on icloud etc required me to hand off my >>>>>>> password about 5 times to the genius because voice over wasn't turning >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> right there and then, and required an update from 8.2 to 8.3. And to >>>>>>> imagine taht my server setup at home, with cache of all new software >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> pushes it to my devices in a flash, once it downloaded on the server, >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> not installed at the apple store itself, meaning I had to stand there >>>>>>> like >>>>>>> a bum for 25 odd minutes with the genius giving me some meta technical >>>>>>> explanation when I pointed it out (meaning it was bullshit to a computer >>>>>>> science student majoring in maths but completely valid to a lambda >>>>>>> user), >>>>>>> I felt like I was in a place I really didn't want to be in. Everything >>>>>>> just felt fake, the music felt like some weird supermarket of tech >>>>>>> accompaniment, the people going there felt like they were second or >>>>>>> third >>>>>>> or fifth wave apple new buyers (Unlike myself, who's first computer was >>>>>>> an >>>>>>> apple II), I felt like apple just went down a notch in my respect gauge, >>>>>>> meaning that the entire tech industry and my faith in it went down >>>>>>> since I >>>>>>> won't find better for now. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Maybe I was expecting too much from this apple watch, maybe I'm spot on. >>>>>>> I'm usually very good with my intuition and when the rest of the pack >>>>>>> starts to pick it up, I don >>>>>>> t go "you see?" but it generally occurs and I smile to myself silently. >>>>>>> So >>>>>>> I thought it good to communicate this to y'all, my conclusion being: >>>>>>> wait >>>>>>> for a slimmer, less expensive version of this luxury item made for those >>>>>>> who have to show tech because only tech savvy as mass consumer, not >>>>>>> slick >>>>>>> tech guru type with a much brighter idea of the future than this poorly >>>>>>> executed timepiece. I'm sure the software is top notch. I trust >>>>>>> Freddericci and his team of apple engineers. I don't trust Johnny ive's >>>>>>> pompous description of things and his love of bling bling, and I don't >>>>>>> trust Tim cook's accountant/logistics mind. I really hope apple will get >>>>>>> one of the nwer guys within to come out. A younger design guy too. apple >>>>>>> is heading towards a weird frontier of utopic pontificating tech that >>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>> not comfortable with to be honest. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yuma Antoine Decaux >>>>>>> "Light has no value without darkness" >>>>>>> Mob: +61 410732547 >>>>>>> Skype: Shainobi1 >>>>>>> twitter: http://www.twitter.com/triple7 >>>>>>> <http://www.twitter.com/triple7> <http://www.twitter.com/triple7 >>>>>>> <http://www.twitter.com/triple7>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups >>>>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>> an >>>>>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com> >>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>>. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>. >>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries> >>>>>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>>. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout> >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>>. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Have a great day, >>> Alex Hall >>> mehg...@icloud.com <mailto:mehg...@icloud.com> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>> <http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> 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