Well, I strongly strongly disagree with your assessment, but that said, no disrespect on your part taken, and further, I respect you for voicing your opinion on the matter. Again, I don't agree at all with it, but, you have a right to your feeling on the matter, just as I do, so dont' worry about it. It's all good. No hard feelings. --- Christopher Gilland JAWS Certified, 2016. Training Instructor.
[email protected] Phone: (704) 256-8010. ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Meredith To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 4:57 PM Subject: Re: bar instead of function keys on new Mac Book Pros? With all due respect, sir, there WAS a significant amount of negativity in this thread, which definitely took the tone of the age old song that blind people are always left out, and ZOMG this may happen again. I’m pretty sure it was the present Apple CEO that pointed out that, when they consider accessibility of their products as pertains the blind, they “don’t care about the bloody ROI”. I come from a staunch Windows background (I even worked on the Windows team at the folks in Redmond), pretty sure that you needed hooks that penetrated deep into the operating system to ever get accessibility right, because the designers of mainstream software didn’t, generally speaking, care one way or another. It’s taken a year or seven, but I’m at least mostly convinced that Apple mostly gets it, although I do feel like more attention is paid to access on iOS than OS X (El Capitan is the first operating system build I’ve seen where a lot of the VoiceOver sluggishness has gone away, and it’s only been recent builds of Xcode’s Interface Builder that have worked with VoiceOver at all). Whilst I feel like we have a way to go, and whilst I feel like a certain amount of accessibility parity may be prevented by other players’ tendency to “litigate, not innovate”, the state of accessibility of Apple products, at least in my limited view, has trended upwards in the last ten years, inasmuch as I can now do all of my work on my company’s Macs, although Slack still sometimes requires me to fail over to a Windows VM, and Chrome + ChromeVox + Macintosh is still a bit less than optimal where Google Apps are concerned (which may also be user error on my part). Also, as far as tantrums, again from the limited amount of time I’ve lurked on this list, I would perhaps take a look at your own glass house before throwing stones. Perhaps my opinion is colored by the fact that I tend to agree with Mr. Granados’ assessment of the general tone taken by many in the Blind Community®, and his seeming jadedness with the “change is bad because it leaves us out in the cold” mentality, I seem to recall at least a few … less than civil … exchanges of which you’ve been a part, and definitely your statements purporting gloom and doom about this potential design change that may not even happen definitely outnumber any statements you’ve made allowing for the contrary. On Jun 11, 2016, at 12:09 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland <[email protected]> wrote: Scott, With all due respect, I hope your little tantrom has made you feel better. You're out of line! We're not saying it's going to definitely be a problem. Quit putting proverbial words in our mouths. We're only stating it could! be a problem. Key word: could! be a problem. We never once said Apple wouldn't come up with a work around. If we did, then point me to the mail that specifically said this, and then I'll profusely apologize. --- Christopher Gilland JAWS Certified, 2016. Training Instructor. [email protected] Phone: (704) 256-8010. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Granados" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 10:53 PM Subject: Re: bar instead of function keys on new Mac Book Pros? Oh here we go, they haven’t released it yet and you’re all already bitchng about it. How many people did I hear piss and moan years ago when touch screens came out. Oh I must have a physical keyboard. Phones will be inaccessible with out physical keyboards, I need to have a screen reader to install in my phone to use with my physical keyboard. Then bam, Apple releases the iphone and here we are all using touch screens. Then people bitched about the loss of the old multi pin connector in place of the lightning and it hasn’t even happened yet but people cry about the loss of the headphone jack and now this touch bar. Stop it already. Unless you’ve used one you can’t comment with any degree of meaning on whether it’s any good or not. Let the product come out, let people review it first or jump in like some of us do but try it before you bash it. With the line of thinking on this list sometimes we’d all still be using holes punched in paper and an abacus trying to get jobs at Google. An the first person who says the abacus is better than a scientific calculator or beads are our friends or what ever gets smacked about the head and shoulders with a trout until they stop.:) I’m tired of it. IF you want to be luddites that’s fine and your choice but come on, the same old tune is getting old. Ihave a PDP-11 taking up space if anyone wants it to get off the progress band wagon. On 6/10/16, 6:09 PM, "Daniel Miller" <[email protected] on behalf of [email protected]> wrote: If they replace the function keys with the touch sensitive bar,I along with probably most of this list will lose a lot of respect for them as a company. I understand that they're supposed to integrate touch ID into this bar, but there are several other places on the machine itself or touch ID could be integrated without having to lose physical function keys. I have a feeling the Tim Cook led Apple is valuing form over function, which for people with disabilities, isn't always the best idea. Lenovo attempted this no function key idea with one of their machines, and guess what? It absolutely bombed, even for people that did not have a disability. Sent from my iPhone 6S Plus On Jun 10, 2016, at 6:00 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland <[email protected]> wrote: Honestly, totally agreed. --- Christopher Gilland JAWS Certified, 2016. Training Instructor. [email protected] Phone: (704) 256-8010. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Miller" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 5:57 PM Subject: Re: bar instead of function keys on new Mac Book Pros? I think the touch bar is stupid, enough said. Sent from my iPhone 6S Plus On Jun 10, 2016, at 5:01 PM, Ray Foret jr <[email protected]> wrote: Hi there, Rumor has it that the soon forth coming Mac book pros will feature a touch bar instead of function keys on the keyboard. This raises an interesting question. Assuming that Voice Over is turned off on any one of the new Mac book Pros that a blind user goes up to, how is a blind person supposed to turn on Voice Over if there are no physical function keys but instead a touch bar? I think maybe I can guess. If a blind person needs to turn on Voice OVer, it should be possible by pressing VO+touch anyware on the bar and that should do it. Or else, triple tap the bar to turn Voice OVer on. I can almost imagine the e-mails now. Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!!!!! -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at [email protected] The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. 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