Hi Devin, It kind of depends on the site and how VO decides to group things. Yes, at times, as information is being loaded specific to a group, VO will appear to hang. In most cases, I just wait a few seconds and the info is loaded and I either interact or move on. The faster navigation comes from the ability to move on and ignore large portions of the web-page. Instead of having to navigate past numerous individual links in a header bar, these are grouped together and I simply zip past the entire set of links. Similarly with tables, I can navigate quickly past tables I don't wish to read and move on to the next info saving lots of time. It is especially quick when web developers actually tag their tables so I don't even need to interact to determine if I'm interested.
HTH. Later... Tim Kilburn Fort McMurray, AB Canada On Jul 5, 2016, at 05:40, Devin Prater <[email protected]> wrote: Hi Tim, How do you use group navigation quickly? When I use it, Safari often goes busy or voiceover is slower than using Dom navigation. Sent from my Mac. Devin Prater [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > On Jul 5, 2016, at 5:14 AM, Simon Fogarty <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > Well I guess we've got a happy mac camper on our hands, > > I use both windows and mac systems and I use voiceover on my mac oh and IOS > device that comes across my desk and surprisingly enough I can access them > all from start of setup to finish and configurations, > Same voiceover start up on each mac computer and same on IOS devices with a > triple click or siri command. > > As for windows, please sighted person install windows for me > Oh or I can once the machine is up and running use narrator SA to go NVDA or > jaws 17 to figureout what it is I need to do. > > IE 11 crashs more than Safari or firefox ever did, > Office on the mac and iwork didn't work with voiceover in snowleopard and > the associated voiceover > Now with Yosemite and el capitan pages number and keynote and now office 2016 > are so close to perfect for accessibility I don't see the problems. > > Yes el capitan has bugs in it but so does windows, 95,98 98se, ME oh that was > a bug in the system, xp vista 7 8 and 8.1 and yeah, windows 10 has bugs to, > not to mention server 2008 r2 2012 and r2 and server 2016 is a pain in the > backside. > > But you know something, I use major os's on a daily basis and although > they've got issues for the blind users, > They've got just as many issues for the sighted folk as well. > > But when my colleagues are working on a machine be it a mac or a windows > machine and they can't get content from the screan, guess who they call, yeah > the blind man > Because I can see what they can't! > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > [mailto:[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Alex Hall > Sent: Tuesday, 5 July 2016 12:25 AM > To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Disappointed with Voiceover > > First, speaking as a mostly happy Mac user, I want to say that I very much > hope that offense is never taken by anyone to a message like yours. It wasn't > "it's not Windows so I hate it and you're all stupid fanboys". It was > respectfully written and gave some specific examples of the problems you > have. That's helpful and illustritive, not a reason for offense. > > Next, I'd say to send this to Apple by emailing [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. Enumerate all the reasons you don't use a > Mac that are specific to VoiceOver, referencing any bugs you submit to > apple.com/feedback <http://apple.com/feedback> if possible. > > Finally, on a side note, I'd say that free can work quite well. At work we > all use Windows, and I rely on NVDA every day for everything. The few times > NVDA has failed me, I've started up a trial of JAWS 17, only to find it > either has the same problems or makes things even worse. I only bring this up > because, too often, people think the contest is between free VoiceOver and > paid Windows screen readers. They forget, or intentionally ignore, the free > Windows option. Plus, there's the free Window-Eyes for Office users. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 4, 2016, at 08:13, Martin Brown <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> My first encounter with Voiceover was back in the Snow Leopard days, >> and boy was I impressed with the level of commitment by Apple to its screen >> reader. >> It was back then I was enthusiastic about learning as much as I could >> about this very different way of accessing a computer. It was quite a >> struggle having come from the Windows environment, but I persevered >> and most of what I know about interacting with my Mac goes back to >> those days. Sadly, I feel it has been down hill as far as building >> upon what made Voiceover a great solution to help a blind person do >> what needs to be done to get the most and the best out of their Mac. >> >> In the past few years I only drop in occasionally to see if things are >> getting better with what used to be a great product only to find that >> things are no better, and sometimes even worse. We are now some nine >> months into the release of El Capitan, and still there are bugs that >> should have been sorted before the software was even out the door. I >> am not one of those people who expect everything to always work >> perfectly from day one. Nor do I expect that sometimes one has to >> think outside the box when working with energised silicone chips, but >> when doing basic tasks such as deleting a web site from favourites, the task >> should be simple and take seconds to perform. >> Oh boy, not on this Mac. >> >> And then there's Safari. When it works it's good, but when it doesn't >> it would drive a Zen master towards the Prozac shelf. On some sites >> its fine, on others it's rickety, while on others it quite simply >> refuses to work. An example of the latter is the Soap Kitchen, a >> company based in the United Kingdom. It was so bad I was on the verge >> of pressing the off switch to get out of the mess. The big problem >> with the Mac is, if Voiceover is playing up then you're basically >> stuffed. On a Windows machine, what one screen reader doesn't do >> another might. I know there are very dedicated and able users of >> Voiceover on this list who may take offence to an interloper such as >> myself for daring to criticise Apple for its efforts. However, I feel >> if El Capitan is the best a multibillion company can do for its >> disabled customers, then give me Windows any day where I have to pay for a >> more reliable screen reader. Free is not always best, and Voiceover is >> testimony to that. >> >> In the near future, it is rumoured, that Microsoft will provide a >> screen reader worthy of that label. I am not holding my breath for >> that to become a reality. However, let's assume that Microsoft finally >> gets a moral conscience and does what it should have done years ago >> and enables people who are blind to access their product out of the >> box. If it is as bug-ridden as Voiceover is, then I will still be happy to >> pay for a better experience. >> Despite my best efforts with the Mac, my productivity suffers badly >> using Voiceover. >> >> However, all is not lost. After all we will soon be getting a new and >> supposedly better operating system from the Gods at Apple. Perhaps I >> will give it a go after a nine month period in the hope that Apple has >> once more taken its commitment to accessibility back on to a more >> serious footing. As with Microsoft, however, I shall not be holding my >> breath. I have been reliably informed that asphyxia is not a pleasant way to >> pop one's clogs. >> >> >> On a final note, I know and accept that screen readers such as JAWS >> and Window-Eyes are not perfect. But I find both way more reliable >> than Voiceover. Using either with Internet Explorer, the vast majority >> of sites are very manageable. What I want to do with my computer, be >> it Windows or Mac, is to just get the job done in as short a time as >> possible. The last thing I want to spend my time on is trying to >> figure out how to get around a bug that someone with a degree in >> computer science has created in the first place. I can't help but >> wonder how much better accessibility would be today had the genius >> that was Steve Jobs still been around to guide a company that seems to have >> lost its way. >> Martin >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >> Visionaries list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is >> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara > Quinn - you can reach Cara at [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/> > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara > Quinn - you can reach Cara at [email protected] > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at [email protected] The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at [email protected] The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
