Hi Mary, one can only hope. And that's why all the agitation, the online petition that gained over 300,000 signatures, and the publicity has been so important. It was absolutely critical to raise these issues at a time when design tweaks could be made, which is precisely why I raised the alarm back in December when it was pretty clear this was coming. That's how effective advocacy works, you have to know when the process can be influenced and act then, not when it's too late. A number of us have raised these issues at a senior level and now that the jack has gone, we have to have everything crossed that this use case has been accounted for. If it comes down to elegance versus convenience, that's a very different matter from being shut out of a product because of a serious accessibility constraint. If the accessibility constraint is a reality, then all we can do is hope that the convenience factor is so significant that there's a significant backlash. I may not upgrade to the iPhone 7 even if you can charge and use wired headphones at the same time, but it would be good to have the same choice to make that decision as everyone else. Thanks for your understanding and compassion. It's comforting to know some people do get it. For those of us who depend on these devices for our livelihood, it's a tense week ahead as we find out just what they've done. Jonathan Mosen Mosen Consulting Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training http://Mosen.org
> On 2/09/2016, at 9:31 AM, Mary Otten <motte...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Thanks for refreshing my memory about the special circumstances, Jonathan. I > can only hope that Apple does the right thing and comes out with a way to > enable simultaneous charging and headphone usage. I am obviously not a > designer, but it seems like it Ohta be possible to make something like that. > I mean, why not? If the audio and the power are all coming from that one > place, why couldn't they make something with two connectors? No, it wouldn't > be pretty or elegant. But if it worked, that would be the main thing, > wouldn't it? If they are in fact committed to accessibility, and design of > such a device as possible and reasonable, then they ought to do it. They do a > lot of other things that are not necessary at all. Just I candy. > Mary > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 1, 2016, at 12:07 PM, Jonathan Mosen <jmo...@mosen.org > <mailto:jmo...@mosen.org>> wrote: > >> Hi Mary, unfortunately this issue doesn't affect the Deaf community in the >> same way as it affects blind people who wear hearing aids and require decent >> latency. And the fact that those of us who are affected are such a minority >> makes us more vulnerable. You can be sure I am considering my legal options >> under legislation here. >> A standard hearing aid wearer uses their phone actively far less than a >> blind person who wears a hearing aid. For example, if a Bluetooth solution >> is being used, after a standard hearing aid wearer has finished their call >> or isn't listening to music, the technology goes into standby and uses very >> little energy. A blind person has VO talking a lot of the time if they're >> using their device for tasks like reading and creating documents, email etc, >> so the impact is much greater. >> Even if people are willing to accept an adapter jutting out of their phone >> with its resultant potential to be lost or bent, the adapter will not solve >> the problem entirely if it means that you can't charge your device and use >> headphones at the same time. I travel long distances for example, often with >> flights over 12 hours long. I regularly take my Anka battery with me and >> charge the phone while I use it to compensate for the inaccessible in-flight >> entertainment system. It's important to me to have a full charge when I >> reach my destination. Based on the information we have, it looks like you >> can either listen to wired headphones or charge, not both. >> That means that every VoiceOver user who chooses a wired option appears to >> have to choose between privacy and charge. >> Jonathan Mosen >> Mosen Consulting >> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training >> http://Mosen.org <http://mosen.org/> >>> On 2/09/2016, at 4:41 AM, Mary Otten <motte...@gmail.com >>> <mailto:motte...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Well, just to be clear, I personally would be against this move, if it >>> means that they' very large hard of hearing community can't use hearing >>> aids on iPhones anymore. That seems like such an incredibly stupid move on >>> Apple's part, that I am tempted to just believe that they wouldn't do it if >>> they didn't have a workaround that would work for people who use hearing >>> aids. The hard of hearing community is orders of magnitude larger then the >>> blind community. So Shirley, this adapter must be providing someway for >>> people who use hearing aids to keep on doing so. What am I missing here? I >>> remember sometime ago, when the idea that the headphone jack would go away >>> first came out, Jonathan wrote a very impassioned piece on this subject, >>> arguing that this was a very bad idea because of the use case of hearing >>> aids. Now Apple is going to do it anyway, but they're offering an adapter. >>> Why doesn't that solve the problem? I understand why Bluetooth is not a >>> good alternative, given Jonathan's comments on battery drain and the >>> well-known problem for voiceover users with latency. It's still really bad, >>> at least on my phone with my legend. I would not want to have to type on >>> that system for anything more than a word or two, because the latency >>> between when you touch a letter and when you hear it is much too long. >>> Mary >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Sep 1, 2016, at 8:53 AM, Scott Granados <sc...@qualityip.net >>>> <mailto:sc...@qualityip.net>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Mary, you’re exactly right and points well stated as always. Here’s >>>> another point to consider, suppose we add wireless charging. Now, you >>>> could have a brick with no ports what so ever formed from one solid piece >>>> of material. You could almost grow the casing and have a super durable >>>> waterproof phone with no openings at all. The entire surface could be a >>>> screen. Not needing ports is a good thing over all. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Aug 31, 2016, at 3:33 PM, Mary Otten <motte...@gmail.com >>>>> <mailto:motte...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Mark, >>>>> Of course, only time will tell. But I think you are wrong about the >>>>> disappearing headphone jack. For one thing, Samsung put back the storage >>>>> card thing, but did not put back the user replaceable battery. Also, if >>>>> the other rumor is true, Apple will be including compatible earbuds with >>>>> the new phone, as well as an adapter to make it possible for people to >>>>> use other headphones. Given the prevalence of Bluetooth these days, I >>>>> suspect that the headphone jack will in fact be gone from iPhones >>>>> forever. Other device makers are already moving in this direction. So it >>>>> isn't just Apple. In fact, they will not be the first ones to market >>>>> without a headphone jack on the phone. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 31, 2016, at 11:05 AM, M. Taylor <mk...@ucla.edu >>>>>> <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Well, as for me, I'm going to sit back and see how the market accepts >>>>>> the new iPhone 7 trans a separate earphone jack. >>>>>> >>>>>> When Samsung attempted to make its devices thinner by (1) removing the >>>>>> removable battery and (2) removing the ability to add auxiliary memory >>>>>> to its flagship phones, it soon reversed its decision as the market, >>>>>> effectively, rejected the devices in favor of other companies who kept >>>>>> those features. >>>>>> >>>>>> A couple of years ago, when Apple decided to remove the ability for iOS >>>>>> devices to have their photo content immediately available to PC users >>>>>> upon attaching the device to the computer, the marketplace went crazy >>>>>> and vowed to turn to Android if Apple insisted on forcing people to use >>>>>> iTunes in order to manage photos. >>>>>> >>>>>> Like Samsung, Apple immediately reversed itself by restoring this >>>>>> feature in the subsequent release of iTunes. >>>>>> >>>>>> So, I'll just wait and see for, unless 7 is a complete hit, something >>>>>> tells me that iPhone 8 will bring the jack back (smile). >>>>>> >>>>>> Mark >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >>>>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>] On Behalf Of Bill Gallik >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 9:43 AM >>>>>> To: MacVisionaries E-Mail List >>>>>> Subject: Re: Some interesting rumours regarding 3.5 mm jack issue on the >>>>>> iPhone seven >>>>>> >>>>>> When all the “hubbub” concerning Apple removing the earphone jack first >>>>>> appeared I was certain they (Apple) was going to provide an adapter so >>>>>> potential customers would be able to use their existing earphones with >>>>>> the iPhone 7. This coming to light does not surprise me in the least. >>>>>> **************** >>>>>> - Bill & Leader Dog Holland >>>>>> - "The problem with people who have no vices is that you can be pretty >>>>>> sure they are going to have some pretty annoying virtues." >>>>>> - Elizabeth Taylor, 20th Century Screen Actress, (1932-2011)-- >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>>> >>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is >>>>>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >>>>>> >>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>>> >>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is >>>>>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >>>>>> >>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>> >>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>> >>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara >>>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >>>>> >>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>> Visionaries list. >>>> >>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>> >>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara >>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >>>> >>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>> Visionaries list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara >>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >> >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >> Visionaries list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara >> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara > Quinn - 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