Okay, guys, enough! Personally, as I read it, the original point was not necessarily to convert anyone to Apple. It was to establish that access out-of-the-box is a very desirable thing.
I support this view whole-heartedly as do most (if not all) of us here. For some who may have funding from rehab organizations this level of access may be taken for granted, but for those whom choose to pay for their own tech solutions, the idea of universal access is definitely a welcome one. As well, for those living completely independently of sighted assistance, bolt-on solutions just don't cut it. -And, I'd posit, that this kind of scenario is merely somewhat of a 'pseudo' sense of independence. If your computer or phone crashes to the point that you need to rely on someone to help you simply for the fact that they are sighted, then, in a sense, how independent are you really? So, whether you love Microsoft, Apple, and any cell phone manufacturers, or the screen access solutions they entail, I think we can all agree that more / better / easier access is a terrific thing! Yes?… Thanks so much for such a great discussion, and I'd personally love to see this continue on Chris's VO BS list if Chris and ya'll are up for it. :) To everyone, I wish you and yours a truly lovely holiday season!… Smiles, Cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Dec 22, 2009, at 4:55 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: defending? YOur flippent I'm better than you so go away attitude really doesn't say much for your position. On Dec 22, 2009, at 5:49 PM, Scott Howell wrote: > Well whatever, because now your message isn't making a lot of sense. At this > rate your defending yourself way to hard, so lets just move along to a new > topic. We all know VO is great or we wouldn't be using it. I don't care about > JAWS WE, NDA, or whatever other flavor of WIndows screen reader you choose to > talk about. It all boils down to what works and how you go about it is what > matters and that was pretty much my point. > So, hey, go enjoy whatever machine/OS/screen reader. Have a great Holiday. > On Dec 22, 2009, at 5:50 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: > >> Again, vo is great. Everyone is making reasons why it is good, which wasn't >> the point in what I said. All I'm saying is the fact that the mac would work >> from the store I bought it on doesn't mean much as I didn't even buy it from >> a store. Yes, it is great. I love the built-in screen reader support, but it >> seems we go over how amazing it is at least once or twice a week when >> someone else is converted. I love it's stability and security over windows. >> But the fact that I have to install a program really doesn't irc me all to >> much. It is a bit hard, but with things like NVDA I can walk up to a windows >> system and pop in a USB key and be read to roll. Sure it doesn't support >> everything, but it supports quite a bit to make it worth using. I do tech >> support and computer repair around the town I live in, and I've used this >> solution coupled with narrator many times to get me up and running on a >> system I'm fixing. Along with a set of programs I built for troubleshooting >> and cleaning up viruses and such, NVDA is amazing. Sadly though more and >> more people are buying macs, it's not a huge chunk of the market to the >> point where I can just walk to any computer and more than likely it'll be a >> mac. While there are macs out there, the whole "I can go anywhere and use >> it," doesn't exactly work, because there really aren't to many floating >> around. I believe that in order to be productive, we need to be able to use >> *any* computer, whether it be windows or mac, and even a linux system, >> though a portable linux reader doesn't currently exist to my knowledge. >> >> On Dec 22, 2009, at 3:43 PM, Chris Blouch wrote: >> >>> One other nice thing with VO is it draws a box on the screen to show where >>> focus is which helps a lot when collaborating with folks who can see the >>> screen. Jaws doesn't do this so when working together it can be hard to >>> tell where the Jaws user is on a page. No such problem with VO and you >>> could even pull up the caption panel to make it even more clear what VO was >>> just saying. >>> >>> CB >>> >>> Michael Huckabay wrote: >>>> >>>> Yes verry good points. You wouldn't have jaws on every computer. Say you >>>> go to work and have to use a computer. Well with a PC and jaws you would >>>> hav to get jaws and put it on that computer wich is changing a computer >>>> that possibley you would mabey not be using all the time. With a mac all >>>> you have to do is turn vo on and your set. So if it was a differnt >>>> computer well you would still be able to work with it. One other thing is >>>> if you had to help some one say a sighted friend fix there computer. You >>>> would have to put some sort of speach software on it because you could >>>> help them. With a mac you could sall the problem and then just turn vo off. >>>> Just some of my thoughts on this. >>>> Mike. >>>> On 2009-12-22, at 4:42 PM, John André Netland wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> Well, I think you forget one important point in this discussion; The Mac >>>>> and the iPhone/iPod Touch not only speaks out of the box in the Apple >>>>> Store, it also talks without any additional software on any Mac and any >>>>> iPHone/iPod Touch your friends, your family, your internet cafés, your >>>>> library, your school, your university, your work etc etc have at their >>>>> location. So, you are not forced to use only your own special edited and >>>>> pre-installed PC at home or at work, with only one authorization >>>>> available. You are free to use any Mac/iPHone/iPod Touch on this planet. >>>>> If your unit is stolen, lost, broken or simply not where you currently >>>>> are, there are always another one available. No re-installing, >>>>> re-authorization, help to perform installation etc etc. That is a consept >>>>> I like, and would like to benefit from. In addition, my Mac and iPHone is >>>>> currently what makes me productive and able to run my business with >>>>> success. NOt that I could not do just that with a PC, but not wit >>>>> h that kind of freedom. >>>>> >>>>> Just my little point of view on this subject. Smiles. >>>>> >>>>> Take care, and have a lovely Christmas everyone! >>>>> >>>>> John André >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 22. des. 2009, at 22.13, Tyler Littlefield wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I believe you should re-read my message. I said VO still needs help, not >>>>>> "I still need help." >>>>>> While a computer that talks off-the-shelf is great, that's no reason to >>>>>> tell someone they need to buy the mac. While I like the mac, the cost >>>>>> really doesn't balance out having a computer that talks in the apple >>>>>> store. >>>>>> >>>>>> I still stand by what I've said since I received voiceover. There are >>>>>> some things that VO does and doesn't do better than Jaws. I think we >>>>>> should be looking at what the reader gives us when advertizing it rather >>>>>> than saying "You can use this in the store." Because in reality it >>>>>> doesn't really matter to our productivity if it works off the shelf. >>>>>> While I think the IPhone is great, as I said, I will be buying something >>>>>> that isn't an IPhone because of it's voice active issues. Reading off a >>>>>> number while being with someone if you want to three-way-call is quite >>>>>> annoying in its self, much less having to make sure things are quiet. >>>>>> On Dec 22, 2009, at 1:34 PM, Scott Howell wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Tyler, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I do not understand your comment below. What does it talking out of >>>>>>> the box have to do with whether you need help. I do not understand the >>>>>>> connection. Can you elaborate? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2009, at 2:04 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sure, but just because it talks out of the box doesn't mean much. >>>>>>>> Don't get me wrong, I love my VO, but there still are things that it >>>>>>>> needs help with. >>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2009, at 11:51 AM, Scott Howell wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ALthough I agree there needs to be no mission in converting folks,, I >>>>>>>>> do believe it makes sense to let any and all know. Whether you like >>>>>>>>> the iPhone or not is in my mind irrelevant. What is relevant is the >>>>>>>>> fact that finally now a blind or visually impaired person can now go >>>>>>>>> into a store and purchase an accessible product, whether that be a >>>>>>>>> computer, iPhone, or iPod, and not have to purchase additional and >>>>>>>>> expensive software makes a tremendous difference. >>>>>>>>> I think there is more to be gained by proving the Mac or other >>>>>>>>> offerings by Apple are viable solutions is what will sell the product >>>>>>>>> to a blind or visually impaired user honestly. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2009, at 12:58 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The iphone seems nice enough, but lets not go on a converting >>>>>>>>>> rampage. I'm personally getting something else, because I don't like >>>>>>>>>> the iphone, even if we had service for it where I'm at. >>>>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Jess wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi folks, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Well, I'm getting the IPhone 3 GS today. But more than that, folks, >>>>>>>>>>> we need to keep the trend of switching to the Mac and IPhone going. >>>>>>>>>>> The more people we have switching, the more inclined Apple will be >>>>>>>>>>> to continue support and development for Voice OVer. >>>>>>>>>>> For the first time, I can walk into a store, pick up a phone, and >>>>>>>>>>> have it talk out of the box. I don't have to have this special >>>>>>>>>>> software that makes my phone accessible, and explain to people, oh, >>>>>>>>>>> this is special software that reads aloud what you see on the >>>>>>>>>>> screen. When I mention to people that I am going to get the IPhone, >>>>>>>>>>> I feel a great deal of satisfaction that people don't look at me >>>>>>>>>>> and go, well Jess, youre blind, so how the hell will you be able to >>>>>>>>>>> use it? It's awesome that I can be treated as an equal. We half! to >>>>>>>>>>> keep this trend up! Otherwise, what we have waited for, hoped for, >>>>>>>>>>> and longed for, access to something right out of the box, will soon >>>>>>>>>>> be gone forever! And by the way, every time I try to convince >>>>>>>>>>> someone that accessibility is a right and we have the right to have >>>>>>>>>>> 100 percent access to everything we buy, that argument that we are >>>>>>>>>>> to small of a market is always what I get. I'm sorry, but Apple is >>>>>>>>>>> proving that argument to be void, and I have never agreed with >>>>>>>>>>> it and never will. Any thoughts on this post? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Jes >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>> macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
