Ray, One thing I do agree with ii that when it come to apple products we can be 99% sure that it will work with voiceover out of the box,
The only reason I say 99% is that gotta give a 1% chance of something not working, but lets face it, everything apple works without issue for us, Including the home pods and I’m sure the Series 3 watch with LTE which isn’t going to be available in new zeaad for a while, the gps only model is already advertised, Why can’t this country I live in come in to the real world with everyone else. From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Raymond Foret Jr Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 9:17 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why I’m backing my friend Krister on this point. Frankly, I am getting just plain sick and tired of al these blind people whining that something is going to suck or not be usable even before we know all the details of how it works. Talk about a drain on one’s energy. Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind: Sincerely, The constantly barefooted Ray On Sep 13, 2017, at 2:41 AM, Krister Ekstrom <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Why do blind people always have to invent worst case scenarios even when the phone hasn’t come out yet? Ok, ok before you say anything i was also doubtful for many years, wondering how Apple would solve this or that, turned out they did and did it good at that. At tha risk of getting flamed, but hell i’ve been that before and survived, one thing the apple user base could learn from the Android one is to show some appreciation for what is being done. Every time Talkback comes out, even if its features are virtually useless for some, they get praise, but every time Voiceover comes out the negative always outways the positive and it lasts for months on end. Is Voiceover really *that* bad or am i stupid and unintelligent, and if it sucks so hard, why is it that after eight months in Android land i left probably not to return again and went back to iOs? /Krister 13 sep. 2017 kl. 08:03 skrev 'Catherine Turner' via MacVisionaries <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>: Also without a home button I wonder how we'll start/stop VO, use the app switcher and get to home. Probably using the app switcher and going home could be done with gestures but what about starting/quitting VO...? Catherine On 9/13/17, Simon Fogarty <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Interesting, Samsung have a full screen no buttons face recognition and a finger print sensor. Why can’t apple do that also. From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mary Otten Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 3:40 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>; [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>; [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why Ars Technica / Ron Amadeo [Image removed by sender.] Enlarge<https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/10-1.jpg> / This right here. This gesture. Doing this 80 times a day sucks. The all-new iPhone X<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/09/apples-radically-different-smartphone-is-called-the-iphone-x/> is out, and it's packed with technology. But one thing it's not packed with is a fingerprint sensor. Like many phones in 2017, the iPhone X goes for a nearly all-screen design, which means there's no more room for a front Touch ID sensor. Rather than locate a fingerprint sensor on the back, like many phones have done, Apple chose to do away with Touch ID entirely. Instead, the X is relying only on the new "Face ID" facial recognition feature for biometric security. Face ID on the iPhone X uses a "TrueDepth" camera setup, which blasts your face with more than 30,000 infrared dots and scans your face in 3D. Apple says this can "recognize you in an instant" and log you into your phone. None of that matters. Face ID is still going to suck. This is not the first phone we've tried with a facial recognition feature, and they all have the same problem. It doesn't matter how fast or accurate Face ID is, the problem is the ergonomics: you need to aim it at your face. This is slow and awkward, especially when compared to a fingerprint reader, which doesn't have to be aimed at anything. Consider the "taking it out of your pocket" use case: If you're good, you'll stick your hand in your pocket and grip the phone so your finger lands on the fingerprint reader. Touch ID works as both an "on" button and an "authentication" button. In one touch, you've turned on the phone and logged in. You haven't even fully taken the phone out of your pocket yet, and it's already on and unlocked. By the time you bring the phone to your face, the unlock process is finished and you're looking at the home screen. To use the iPhone X's Face ID, you have take the phone out of your pocket, lift it up to your face, swipe up to turn it on, and only then can can you start the unlock process. The difference is probably one or two seconds, but for something you do 80 times a day<https://techpinions.com/apples-penchant-for-consumer-security/45122>, having the fastest possible unlock system really matters. [Image removed by sender.] Hardware involved in Apple's True Depth Camera system. [Image removed by sender.] Example of how Face ID maps and learns your face. [Image removed by sender.] Demo of Face ID setup. [Image removed by sender.] Animojis, which move to mimic your facial expressions. [Image removed by sender.] 3D mask produced with facial recognition on the iPhone X. [Image removed by sender.] Face ID recognition along with a tap of the side button can authenticate Apple Pay. Consider authenticating with Apple Pay. With a fingerprint reader, you can slam your iPhone on the credit card terminal while holding your finger on the Touch ID button, and everything will just work. You're continuously authenticating and beaming credit card data at the same time, which is easy, intuitive, and hard to mess up. According to Craig Federighi's Face ID demo during the keynote, you now have to open up Apple Pay first, then aim the phone at your face so Face ID can work. Only then can you tap against the credit card terminal. That's two extra steps. A fingerprint sensor, because it works by touch, is basically active all the time. Anytime you need it, you just press it, and it will work. Facial recognition has to be specifically started by an app though. So to authenticate a payment, you now have to open Apple Pay first, because something has to tell the facial recognition system to turn on. If you ignore this and just put the phone against a credit card terminal without authenticating, I suspect Apple Pay will open and ask for a Face ID scan, which won't work because the phone won't be aimed at your face. There's also the "on a table" use case: where before you could just press the home button to unlock the phone, now you'll need to pick it up and, again, aim it at your face. We've kind of already experienced this with the Galaxy S8<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/04/samsung-galaxy-s8-review-shiny-new-hardware-meets-old-software-habits/> (and Note 8<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/08/hands-on-with-the-galaxy-note8-havent-we-seen-this-before/>). On that phone, Samsung didn't do away with the fingerprint sensor entirely, but it has such an awkward size and location<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/04/samsung-galaxy-s8-review-shiny-new-hardware-meets-old-software-habits/3/#h1> that the S8 might as well have not had a fingerprint sensor at all. The phone design asks users to rely on its Iris or face recognition for biometrics, and it's just so slow. The "Let me take a selfie" pose that you have to make every time you unlock the phone is slow, tiring, and annoying. It requires a pause and a level of precision that just isn't needed with a fingerprint reader. I will admit I have not tried Face ID yet, but it's hard to imagine a facial recognition system that solves the problem of having to carefully aim a phone at your face. We won't get a chance to try many of these scenarios until we get some extended time with the phone, but it would take some serious magic to solve them. With a nearly $1000 price tag, Apple is billing the iPhone X as its super-high-end, no-compromise phone, but the lack of a fingerprint sensor is going to be a big downside. Sure, there's no room on the front anymore, but plenty of phones have an easy and ergonomic rear fingerprint reader, and it's something Apple could have done while it waits for that mythical under-screen fingerprint technology<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/06/qualcomm-vivo-show-off-slow-but-convenient-under-display-fingerprint-sensor/> to work. Facial recognition is just not a good idea for a device that doesn't always need to be aimed directly at your face. I can't imagine Face ID won't feel like a big step backwards compared to Touch ID. If my experience with the Galaxy S8 is anything to go by, I suspect a lot of users will just opt to type in a PIN. Original Article: https://arstechnica.com/?p=1164837 Sent from my iPhone -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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