Hi, True enough, though that'd be the same as auto-forms mode. You'd still have to get System Access out of the form to navigate.
Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: [email protected] AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Feb 12, 2010, at 8:44 PM, Ryan Mann wrote: > Hello. You have some good points, but I just want to point out something. > You said that windows screen readers can use hot keys to move around the web > page because there is a forms mode. I just want to point out that System > Access uses hot keys such as e to go to an edit box, but there is no forms > mode for System Access. The way System Access works is, that if you are in > an edit box, any letter one types is entered into the edit box. If the user > isn't on any form, letters such as e and h act as hot keys, so one can type > the letter e to go to the next edit box. > > On Feb 12, 2010, at 3:13 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I use VoiceOver the most, and I'm way more efficient using VoiceOver now. I >> found that, if you were loading absolutely massive webpages, JAWS/Window >> Eyes first had to load all the contents into their virtual buffer before you >> could do as much as navigate. I personally see that as a huge drawback to >> efficiency. The only reason JAWS or Window-Eyes, not to mention NVDA among >> others take advantage of one-letter navigation keys in HTML environments is >> probably because they have that drawback. VoiceOVer might be able to, but >> the issue would be that, if you're in a form field, you'd need Forms mode >> which I'm so glad to get rid of. With a Windows-based screenreader, you have >> to exit forms mode, then use H to go to the next heading, whereas with >> VoiceOver you can simply do it within the field itself due to separate >> commands. That'll still slow you down, no matter how fast you are. It's >> still an extra keystroke, regardless of Auto-forms mode. You still have to >> exit it one way or the other. >> >> Just as a note, I can actually hit VO-H with one hand without much effort. >> I can't hit VO-Shift-H, but if I have to use that keystroke I'll just use >> the right shift key. >> >> You knew what you were getting into, though. You knew the functionality >> existed, but it's bound to be different as it's an entirely different >> operating system. I can't stress that enough. >> >> Suggestion: Dump your Windows computer in the trash and spend all time on >> the Mac. You always have virtual machines if you need to do something you >> know you can only do on Windows, but the way you'll really get efficient in >> navigation with VoiceOver is to get rid of all Window-sbased solutions and >> just suck it up when something is a bit different. I say that because that >> worked for me, and it's the best thing I ever did. It's not an insult to any >> new switchers, just something to consider. I yet have to understand why >> people buy Macbook Pros if they might not even like the operating system or >> the screenreader. Just something I've been wondering, since it's mostly >> people who have never used Macs who seem to buy them. Or, at least, people >> who hardly have used Macs or even people who aren't open to the idea of >> using a Mac. >> >> Regards, >> Nic >> Skype: Kvalme >> MSN Messenger: [email protected] >> AIM: cincinster >> yahoo Messenger: cin368 >> Facebook Profile >> My Twitter >> >> On Feb 12, 2010, at 1:38 AM, Scott Howell wrote: >> >>> Mary, >>> >>> What I was pointing out is that jumping from heading to heading may not be >>> as simple as just pressing h, but the functionality still exists, even if >>> you have to hold some additional keys down. In the end you use what works >>> best for you. YOu say browsing using IE on windows is more efficient for >>> you and that is great, but for me I have found ways of becoming very >>> efficient using VO and Safari. In fact I prefer in nearly all cases now, >>> using VO and Safari. There was a time I may have agreed with you, but as I >>> really became comfortable with VO and the entire Mac experience, I really >>> have no use for windows or windows-based screen readers. Well the only >>> reason I use windows personally is for some courses I am taking that use >>> news groups and so far outlook express is the only choice I have found thus >>> far and since most the materials have to be produced using Word, I have to >>> drag that out. Otherwise, I honestly do find the Mac works well for me. >>> Again, you use what works for you because being efficient and productive is >>> most important. >>> On Feb 11, 2010, at 7:23 PM, Mary Otten wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Scott, >>>> I'm not Linda, but I had to respond to your note to her re the differences >>>> between moving around on a page among elements with Window Eyes or Jaws >>>> and Voice Over. You said that you didn't see much difference between >>>> pressing h by itself or pressing 3 additional keys in addition to h to >>>> move among headers. And you say this is easily done with one hand? You >>>> must have amazing hands. I can no way do that. I've been touch typing for >>>> decades. It gets even more interesting when you add the shift into the mix >>>> to go up the page in reverse order. Doable? yes? As easy as pressing one >>>> key? Not by a long shot. Are there other benefits, such as not having to >>>> go in and out of forms mode? for sure. The added functionality for VO on >>>> the web in Snow Leopard is one of the main reasons I decided to try a Mac. >>>> I really appreciate the numpad commander, although learning it was not as >>>> intuitive as learning mnemonics on the regular keyboard. In no way is the >>>> rotor as efficient for me as having that array of single letter keystrokes >>>> that let me move among various web elements at will. Another thing I hope >>>> can be implemented in the future is a means of letting focus return to >>>> where it was when you return back to a previously visited page. That's a >>>> big time saver with the Windows screen readers, although it doesn't >>>> always work. Its nonexistent with vo. I like the fact that pages seem to >>>> load faster with Safari than they do with IE and a screen reader. Over >>>> all, for me, the Windows experience is still more efficient. But there are >>>> pluses with the Mac, and I'm hoping it will keep improving. Group mode is >>>> something I have tried and dropped. I just never found a page where it >>>> seemed to offer any advantage, since I don't really care how the page is >>>> laid out. I want info and where it is on the page just doesn't seem very >>>> important to me, so long as I can get to it efficiently. Maybe I don't go >>>> to the right sites where group mode's benefits are displayed to best >>>> advantage. >>>> >>>> Mary >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > Ryan Mann > email: [email protected] > phone:386-383-5175 > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
