Hi Brad, That’s very possible. That’s why I said it appears to be system wide. I can’t say that I’ve tried it in every single app on my Mac. I just wanted newer users to know that they might have to add the VO modifier keys for it to work. Cheers, Donna
> On Jan 8, 2023, at 1:08 PM, Brad Snyder <wb...@swbell.net> wrote: > > Hi Donna, > > These are all native Mac apps. Behavior may be different with non-native Mac > apps. > > HTH. > > - Brad - > > On Jan 8, 2023, at 12:54, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries > <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > Hi Brad, > > I can tell you that on my Mac, I see the same behavior in Mail, Text Edit, > Pages, and Safari. So it would appear to be system wide. > Donna > >> On Jan 8, 2023, at 12:15 PM, Brad Snyder <wb...@swbell.net >> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote: >> >> Hello Donna and all, >> >> What you are experiencing has to do with the behavior of VoiceOver >> navigation within a specific application, such as Mail, TextEdit, or other >> native Mac applications. >> This is a separate issue from modifying the behavior of the arrow keys while >> holding down only the Fn key. >> >> - Brad - >> >> On Jan 8, 2023, at 11:53, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries >> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> >> wrote: >> >> Thanks, Michael and Dave. Very glad that you can reproduce what I’m >> seeing. Dave, I’ve used the Mac long enough that I don’t go into keyboard >> help all that often. What you said about the longer explanation is >> interesting, I hadn’t stuck around in Help long enough to hear all that. I >> think I just figured out the VO thing by experimenting until I found the key >> combination that worked. >> Cheers, >> Donna >> >> >>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 11:40 AM, Dave Carlson <dgcarlson0...@gmail.com >>> <mailto:dgcarlson0...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> I’ve noticed a subtle difference when experimenting in the VO keyboard help >>> mode. >>> >>> With just Fn and the left/right the announcement is Home and end, as >>> reported. >>> >>> However when holding Fn plus VO and pressing left arrow, a moment after >>> saying home it will also announce “Go to beginning, moves the cursor to the >>> beginning” and similar additional information for the right arrow. >>> >>> I think there is a difference in behavior for these two scenarios that may >>> indeed affect how it works inside documents, etc. >>> >>> >>> Dave Carlson >>> Farfar, Oregonian, Engineer, Woodworker, Musician >>> dgcarlson0...@gmail.com <mailto:dgcarlson0...@gmail.com> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:29 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries >>> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Michael, >>> >>> So if I go into keyboard help and press those keys—exactly as you >>> describe—VO does say Home, End etc. But if I press FN plus an arrow key >>> without the VO modifier while in a document, webpage etc,nothing happens. >>> Cheers, >>> Donna >>> >>> >>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 11:23 AM, Michael Babcock <michael@payown.media >>>> <mailto:michael@payown.media>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Donna! >>>> >>>> To verify, when you press and hold FN, while pressing left or right in >>>> keyboard help mode with VO+K your saying your computer doesn’t say home or >>>> end unless you press the VO keys as well? >>>> >>>> That is strange, on this MacBook Air, I can do the following steps: >>>> >>>> 1. Press VO+K to enter keyboard help mode >>>> 2. Press and hold the FN key, bottom left key >>>> 3. While still pressing FN, press left or right and I hear Home or End >>>> respectively. >>>> >>>> Have a beautiful day. >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:07 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries >>>>> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Brad,. I am really tired of the obnoxious behavior you display on this >>>>> list. Either learn to be civil, or get off the list. >>>>> >>>>> I can reproduce this behavior flawlessly, and without exception. Just >>>>> pressing the FN key does NOTHING! So, you can be rude all you want, but >>>>> I’m going to post my experience as there is probably someone else out >>>>> there who experiences the same thing, as I don’t that my Mac is an >>>>> anomaly. I don’t doubt that your Mac behaves as you describe, but mine, >>>>> and undoubtedly others, do not. So please don’t dismiss what I write out >>>>> of hand. >>>>> Donna >>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 10:41 AM, Brad Snyder <wb...@swbell.net >>>>>> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Donna, >>>>>> You can disagree all you want, but the VO key is not necessary to change >>>>>> the behavior of the arrow keys when using the Fn key. >>>>>> >>>>>> - Brad - >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 10:11, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries >>>>>> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Sorry, Brad, but I have to disagree. When I just press the FN key >>>>>> nothing happens. When I press the VO modifier, the keys behave as you >>>>>> describe. >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Donna >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:27 AM, Bradford Snyder <wb...@swbell.net >>>>>>> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Changing the behavior of the arrow keys is not a function of VoiceOver, >>>>>>> therefore it is not necessary to use the VO modifier in order to use >>>>>>> the alternate actions of the arrow keys as described in my original >>>>>>> response. >>>>>>> You can test this by turning on Keyboard Help, then press the different >>>>>>> arrow keys while holding down only the Fn key. >>>>>>> Whether or not the VO modifier is used along with the Fn key makes no >>>>>>> matter. The actions of the arrow keys will be the same. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - Brad - >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 08:55, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries >>>>>>> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just one addition to this, for me to use these commands, I also have to >>>>>>> hold down the VO keys. So, VO-FN-right arrow for home, etc. >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Donna >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jan 7, 2023, at 4:59 PM, Bradford Snyder <wb...@swbell.net >>>>>>>> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you hold down the Fn key, the arrow keys become the following: >>>>>>>> Left Arrow becomes the Home key. >>>>>>>> Right Arrow becomes the End key. >>>>>>>> Up Arrow becomes the Page Up key. >>>>>>>> Down Arrow becomes the Page Down key. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> HTH. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Brad - >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jan 7, 2023, at 16:41, Kevin Gibbs <kevj...@gmail.com >>>>>>>> <mailto:kevj...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sometimes, I don’t have my full extended keyboard and have to type on >>>>>>>> just my MacBook Pro keyboard. But I don’t have Page Up/Down or Home >>>>>>>> and End keys. How does one compensate for this? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Kevin >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, >>>>>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact >>>>>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list >>>>>>>> itself. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. 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You can reach mark >>>>>> at: mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn >>>>>> - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >>>>>> >>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/CC0C7B02-C392-4C80-B3CC-0ACD9199C376%40swbell.net >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/CC0C7B02-C392-4C80-B3CC-0ACD9199C376%40swbell.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>> >>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>> >>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. 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You can reach mark at: >>> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you >>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/85A37349-20B0-4A77-9F80-A1FF65CEC3C1%40gmail.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/85A37349-20B0-4A77-9F80-A1FF65CEC3C1%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >> >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >> Visionaries list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. 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You can reach mark at: >> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you >> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/C832167C-285E-401E-92E6-0F6E6F8216C4%40swbell.net >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/C832167C-285E-401E-92E6-0F6E6F8216C4%40swbell.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: > mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/0CAE088D-F36F-40EB-9AB9-A196AFFC2E7C%40me.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/0CAE088D-F36F-40EB-9AB9-A196AFFC2E7C%40me.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. 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