Hi,
On May 22, 2010, Dan Roy wrote:
You got to be kidding. I was excited about the ipad because all
these books would be accessible to us. Yes, I guess they are, but,
having to clear memory and or turning vo off and on to get to every
page, well, that's a bit clunky. I am sure though these issues
will be addressed soon!
and Pete asked:
I Wonder if all this behavior applies to books gotten through the
iBook store as well. I could understand it a bit if so. Still kinda
sad. :(
My reply (Esther):
No, this behavior doesn't apply to using iBooks on the iPad, either
using DRM-free ePub books loaded into the app or books purchased from
the iBook store. I'll cc: this to the viphone list, since my earlier
reply to Yuma's query (appended at the end of this post) was only sent
to the macvisionaries list.
Yuma is in New Zealand now, I think, and used to be somewhere in
southeast Asia; she's not in the U.S. where the iPad is already
released for sales. She was trying to read an 800-some odd page
computer book from O'Reilly Books in PDF format on her Mac, and
having trouble with VoiceOver crashing -- probably because Skim or
Preview was working to hold all 800+ pages along with all their
figures simultaneously and interactively and run VoiceOver to
navigate through the text at the same time. Since the book was also
available to her in DRM-free ePub format, and she had an iPad, she
decided to try to read the ePub version of the book on her iPad. I
wrote these instructions about the Stanza app -- not Apple's
accessible iBooks app for eBook reading -- because she got her iPad
through a third party, and I didn't know whether she had access to
the iBooks app. (It turns out that she does, because she had the
person who sent her the iPad download it onto the device when he
bought it in the U.S.) All these public domain ePub books work in
iBooks on the iPad, but you have to either have the iBooks app on
the iPad or be able to download it from your country's iTunes
Store. People who are in countries where the iPad hasn't yet been
released won't be able to download the iBooks app from their own
iTunes store. Although the app is a free download, it isn't a
default app that is built into the OS 3.2 operating system. Apple
had to use non-standard APIs in order to support ePub book reading.
The ePub format doesn't natively support bookmarking, for example.
This is one of the reasons why looking for a good eBook reading app
that is also accessible on the iPhone, iPad, or iPod Touch has not
been simple.
Stanza actually does work with VoiceOver on my iPad, but not as well
as iBooks. It doesn't work acceptably on the iPhone or iPod Touch,
and I think it's probably a question of resources, because I'm
running the same app. What happens is that it will read your
current page, but not update past it, and tends to stop when it hits
font changes. (In earlier versions on the iPod Touch, Stanza would
read the paragraph or block of text that was directly under your
finger, but nothing more, and would only read words in a different
font when you directly touched those words.) Originally, I thought
that Stanza with VoiceOver turned on performed the same way on the
iPad as it currently does on the iPhone/iPod Touch, but it's
actually much better. It will update to other pages, however, it
may still stop reading before it finishes the Chapter, or stop
updating later pages in the chapter before reaching the end.
Whether Stanza can read through the entire chapter with VoiceOver
seems to depend on size and complexity of chapters -- whether there
are embedded figures, tables, etc. -- and whether available memory
resources are low on the device. That's why I suggested she might
want to free up memory before trying to read, if she were using
Stanza. Ibis reader is another option that works for me on the iPod
Touch as well as on the iPad. It seems to do better reading the
ePub text on both the iPad and iPod Touch or iPhone because it
doesn't devote any resources to trying to the update and advance the
displayed page while it reads through the chapter, so if you touch
the screen you always access the first page of the chapter.
However, that seems to let it read through to the end of each
chapter without problems. When you double tap the center of the
screen, you bring up the controls, which will say "Page 1 of 13" as
well as the Chapter or section. You could toggle VoiceOver off and
just tap the right edge of the page to advance to the next chapter
or check a page in detail when you toggle VoiceOver back on. It's
kind of neat to read through embedded table entries this way on an
iPad screen, since the different elements will just be read out as
you move your finger over rows or columns. Ibis Reader is not an
app -- it uses HTML5 format within your Safari browser, and shows up
under the "Settings > Safari" menu of the iPhone or iPod Touch under
"Databases". You set it up by going to the Ibis Reader web site in
Safari on your iPhone, iPod Touch, or iPhone, creating an account,
and then adding your Ibis Reader account to your home page after
agreeing to let 50 MB of your device's disk space be dedicated to
storing your eBooks for use in Ibis Reader. You can read more about
it in my earlier list post at the Mail Archive, "Ibis Reader: an
accessible alternative eBook reader for the iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad
with some glitches":
<http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries%40googlegroups.com/msg21376.htm
>
HTH. Cheers,
Esther
On May 20, 2010, at 11:30 PM, Esther wrote:
Hi Yuma,
If you have an ePub file from O'Reilly, just use Command-O ("Add
to Library") as though it were an audiobook or music track. It
will show up in your iTunes Library under Books. Then, just sync
it to your iPad by checking it on the appropriate tab. (I don't
remember the tab name).
If you want to try to read it in Stanza, download the app, and
when you've launched it double tap the "Get Books" button. The
"Catalog" button should be selected, if not, double tap it. Flick
right or read down to "O'Reilly Ebooks" (third entry in list) and
double tap. Flick right or touch the "My oreilly.com
Bookshelf" (sixth item in list) and double tap. You'll have to
log into your account with user name and password. Find your book
title in the list and double tap. You'll get a page with the list
of available formats and their download sizes. (Some books are
only available in PDF format). If there is an ePub format, and
you find an entry for it, if you flick right there will be
"Download (link image)" and then a second "Download to Stanza
(link image)" just below it. Double tap the "Download to Stanza"
link if you want to download to Stanza. Just below that will be a
"Read in Ibis Reader (link image)". You probably only want to try
one of these at a time. Using Ibis Reader requires you to create
an account, and then create an Ibis local web account icon on your
device, which will take up 50 MB. You download your ePub book to
your Ibis Reader account in the cloud, then use your locally
installed Ibis Reader to get your books from the cloud so you can
read it even within an internet connection.
I would try just using iBooks, if you can download the app from
your iTunes Store. If you can't download the iBooks app yet, I
would try using Stanza, but I would turn VoiceOver off and restart
the iPad before I tried reading after you do the download. If you
have the System Activity Monitor app, I would also use it to free
memory. Then, when you start up Stanza, go to your Library and
double tap to select the book. You'll have to double tap the
center of the screen to bring up the menu, then double tap the
table of contents button at the bottom left. (This button isn't
announced on my iPod Touch, which is all that I have with me now
to guide the directions). Select a chapter or introduction and
double tap Try using a two finger flick down to read. On my iPod
Touch, reading doesn't advance beyond the current page, and stops
at every change of font. On the iPad, reading stops at the first
page if the system is heavily loaded because you've been
downloading large files or streaming video, etc. If I restart the
device and clear caches (e.g., if I've been browsing heavily in
Safari), I can read through each chapter in Stanza with
VoiceOver. I thnk this may depend on the chapter length. If
things are loaded, reading will stop before you get to the end of
a chapter. You can toggle VoiceOver off, and just tap the right
side of the screen to advance pages, if the current page stopped
advancing. Then, you can touch the screen or flick down and
VoiceOver will start reading again. The problem is, that like
Kobo Books, your position in the chapter or section won't update
with VoiceOver on, so if you stop midway and try to restart
reading, you start at the beginning, unless you toggle VoiceOver
off and tap the right side to advance pages. But then, you have
to check how far you've gone. If you read through to the end of
the chapter, VoiceOve will stop, and you'll need to double tap the
center of the screen to bring up the controls and double tap the
table of contents button at the bottom left to select the next
chapter. Or, you'll be told "Page x of y" with the page controls,
and you can toggle VoiceOver off, and tap the right side of the
screen the correct number of times to get to the end of the
Chapter. You won't be able to make VoiceOver read past the end of
chapter. If you tap the right side of the screen to advance to the
next chapter with VoiceOver off, you can turn it on again and
start reading.
The only app I've been able to use with the Acapela group voices
is iSpeak It! and I had to copy and paste the text in from Simple
Note. (I copied the selection on my Macbook, and pasted it into
Simplenote with Notational Velocity -- both free apps. Then I
opened Simplenote on my iPod Touch, set the rotor and copied the
text, and pasted it into iSpeak It! as described in a post a
couple of weeks ago. You can get French, Spanish, Italian, and
German voices for $0.99 each. You can't exit the app and resume
reading where you were, but you can set any speaking rate that the
iPhone can handle. Alternatively, you can try Read2Me, which only
works with the English voices. It's been updated, so you should
be able to upload text through Google Docs, but I haven't tried
this. You can now speed up the voice somewhat (5 settings, with 3
being the normal rate).
HTH.
Cheers,
Esther
On May 20, 2010, Yuma Antoine Decaux wrote:
Hi list,
Just to add some fuel to the fire i am feeling right now about
books i cant read, i had the following questions:
Has anyone successfully placed epub files into their ibook app on
the ipad? If so, what is the procedure? is it just importing epub
books in itunes or is it a bit more complicated than that?
Secondly, has anyone found any app either from acapella or other
licensees of acapella coming out with a natural sounding e-book
reader?
Best regards,
Yuma
"Light has no value without darkness"
blog: http://www.theblindsamurai.com
twitter: http://www.twitter.com/triple7
Tel: +64 210 22 77 190
On May 20, 2010, at 11:30 PM, Esther wrote:
Hi Yuma,
If you have an ePub file from O'Reilly, just use Command-O ("Add
to Library") as though it were an audiobook or music track. It
will show up in your iTunes Library under Books. Then, just sync
it to your iPad by checking it on the appropriate tab. (I don't
remember the tab name).
If you want to try to read it in Stanza, download the app, and
when you've launched it double tap the "Get Books" button. The
"Catalog" button should be selected, if not, double tap it. Flick
right or read down to "O'Reilly Ebooks" (third entry in list) and
double tap. Flick right or touch the "My oreilly.com
Bookshelf" (sixth item in list) and double tap. You'll have to
log into your account with user name and password. Find your book
title in the list and double tap. You'll get a page with the list
of available formats and their download sizes. (Some books are
only available in PDF format). If there is an ePub format, and
you find an entry for it, if you flick right there will be
"Download (link image)" and then a second "Download to Stanza
(link image)" just below it. Double tap the "Download to Stanza"
link if you want to download to Stanza. Just below that will be a
"Read in Ibis Reader (link image)". You probably only want to try
one of these at a time. Using Ibis Reader requires you to create
an account, and then create an Ibis local web account icon on your
device, which will take up 50 MB. You download your ePub book to
your Ibis Reader account in the cloud, then use your locally
installed Ibis Reader to get your books from the cloud so you can
read it even within an internet connection.
I would try just using iBooks, if you can download the app from
your iTunes Store. If you can't download the iBooks app yet, I
would try using Stanza, but I would turn VoiceOver off and restart
the iPad before I tried reading after you do the download. If you
have the System Activity Monitor app, I would also use it to free
memory. Then, when you start up Stanza, go to your Library and
double tap to select the book. You'll have to double tap the
center of the screen to bring up the menu, then double tap the
table of contents button at the bottom left. (This button isn't
announced on my iPod Touch, which is all that I have with me now
to guide the directions). Select a chapter or introduction and
double tap Try using a two finger flick down to read. On my iPod
Touch, reading doesn't advance beyond the current page, and stops
at every change of font. On the iPad, reading stops at the first
page if the system is heavily loaded because you've been
downloading large files or streaming video, etc. If I restart the
device and clear caches (e.g., if I've been browsing heavily in
Safari), I can read through each chapter in Stanza with
VoiceOver. I thnk this may depend on the chapter length. If
things are loaded, reading will stop before you get to the end of
a chapter. You can toggle VoiceOver off, and just tap the right
side of the screen to advance pages, if the current page stopped
advancing. Then, you can touch the screen or flick down and
VoiceOver will start reading again. The problem is, that like
Kobo Books, your position in the chapter or section won't update
with VoiceOver on, so if you stop midway and try to restart
reading, you start at the beginning, unless you toggle VoiceOver
off and tap the right side to advance pages. But then, you have
to check how far you've gone. If you read through to the end of
the chapter, VoiceOve will stop, and you'll need to double tap the
center of the screen to bring up the controls and double tap the
table of contents button at the bottom left to select the next
chapter. Or, you'll be told "Page x of y" with the page controls,
and you can toggle VoiceOver off, and tap the right side of the
screen the correct number of times to get to the end of the
Chapter. You won't be able to make VoiceOver read past the end of
chapter. If you tap the right side of the screen to advance to the
next chapter with VoiceOver off, you can turn it on again and
start reading.
The only app I've been able to use with the Acapela group voices
is iSpeak It! and I had to copy and paste the text in from Simple
Note. (I copied the selection on my Macbook, and pasted it into
Simplenote with Notational Velocity -- both free apps. Then I
opened Simplenote on my iPod Touch, set the rotor and copied the
text, and pasted it into iSpeak It! as described in a post a
couple of weeks ago. You can get French, Spanish, Italian, and
German voices for $0.99 each. You can't exit the app and resume
reading where you were, but you can set any speaking rate that the
iPhone can handle. Alternatively, you can try Read2Me, which only
works with the English voices. It's been updated, so you should
be able to upload text through Google Docs, but I haven't tried
this. You can now speed up the voice somewhat (5 settings, with 3
being the normal rate).
HTH.
Cheers,
Esther
On May 20, 2010, Yuma Antoine Decaux wrote:
Hi list,
Just to add some fuel to the fire i am feeling right now about
books i cant read, i had the following questions:
Has anyone successfully placed epub files into their ibook app on
the ipad? If so, what is the procedure? is it just importing epub
books in itunes or is it a bit more complicated than that?
Secondly, has anyone found any app either from acapella or other
licensees of acapella coming out with a natural sounding e-book
reader?
Best regards,
Yuma
"Light has no value without darkness"
blog: http://www.theblindsamurai.com
twitter: http://www.twitter.com/triple7
Tel: +64 210 22 77 190
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