Eric, Tell ya what I have not seen anything that says it is truly 30% more than other hardware. However, even if that were true, I'd gladly pay 30% more for a product that is of a higher quality than most other similar devices on the market. In fact when you start to consider and compare the cost of a PC to a Mac the PC is less expensive. THis is partially because vendors such as Dell, HP, etc. get paid by vendors to install trial software etc. on the machines sold. There are a lot of things that help to reduce the price of PCs. Also, consider the fact that many handset manufacturers are practically giving phones away to move them. THe carriers subsidize the handsets and then there are the offers of by one get one free etc. APple does not have to make such deals and yet people will stil purchase the product. So, what does that tell you? Apple sets the price and if you want the product you will pay for it. If not, then you did not want that product. Hey I traded/sold a G4 Mini for $200 and it was about seven years old. Could you sell a seven-year old PC for about a third of its original value after seven years? Probably not.
On Mar 27, 2012, at 9:30 AM, Eric Oyen wrote: > ok, I concede the point. I still have the opine n that their equipment is at > least 30% over priced. > > -eric > > On Mar 26, 2012, at 7:11 AM, Scott Howell wrote: > >> Eric, >> >> Honestly I hear you, but I just do not agree. There are people out there who >> have other disabilities or have no disabilities at all and have the same >> issues as you. My point is Apple nor any company should be expected to >> subsidize anything for anyone and I am including myself. There are companies >> like Gizelle that takes older equipment and resells it. A lot of times you >> can get a very good deal on a machine. There are also other companies that >> do something similar. So, there are sources available, but I just see no >> reason for APple regardless of how much money they have to get into the >> business of providing machines at a reduced price for someone with a >> disability. I think your number exercise is leaving out the larger community >> of people with disabilities. YOu start adding in all the different types of >> disabilities you will see the cost would go up substantially. >> You know nothing is easy and we all have to work with what we have available >> to us. I never said it would be easy or seem fair, but if you have food to >> eat and a place to live I think you have the basic needs met. This whole >> idea of redistributing the wealth of companies and individuals is >> unreasonable and counterproductive, and that is what you are advocating. >> I think the fact that APple does not charge for VoiceOver is a considerable >> advantage because hey you aren't buying a $500 computer and tacking another >> chunk of change on top just to get a usable screen reader. I think that >> counts for something. :) >> >> >> On Mar 26, 2012, at 6:41 AM, Eric Oyen wrote: >> >>> I realize this. the problem is that there is absolutely no possibility that >>> I will ever be able to save up for one. I get $718 a month and between the >>> rent, food and cell phone, I have nothing left. I actually have to borrow >>> money each month just to pay the medications co-pay (that leaves me about >>> $30 in the hole each month). >>> >>> this computer and 1 handheld radio are about the only things I own outright >>> (and the computer is about 4 years old). >>> >>> now, if I were employed, I wouldn't even have these problems. I would be >>> living in a slightly nicer place (outside of gang territory), paying my >>> taxes, having real health insurance, and buying real food (not the cheap >>> crap chock full of chemistry and virtually no food value). >>> >>> you are right, too, that apple doesn't HAVE TO reduce their prices. they >>> could garner an even bigger share of the laptop and desktop markets if they >>> did. they don't HAVE TO offer some discounts to those who are disabled, but >>> they could and it wouldn't hurt their bottom line at all. >>> Yes, I could save up only IF I were able to. hell, the internet I had to >>> beg from a neighbor on a wireless node. >>> >>> so yeah, I have a lot on my plate that wouldn't be there otherwise. call me >>> frustrated. I am stuck on a waiting list to get a hearing aid for my left >>> ear. that has delayed my training program and continues to delay any >>> possibility of becoming employed. so, unless something moves here, I take >>> whatever I can get, where ever I can get it. >>> >>> >>> >>> here is a number crunching exercise for you. >>> >>> there are an estimated 25 million blind or visually impaired people in the >>> US. if Apple where to *GIVE* each of us 1 fully equipped mac mini, it would >>> cost less than $2.5 Billion and they would still make a profit on the deal >>> in good publicity alone. that would still leave them with $113 Billion IN >>> CASH laying around doing nothing. >>> >>> with that cash, Apple could buy ALL of hollywood (warner brothers, disney, >>> universal studios, ILM and others) plus purchase 2 of the big cable >>> companies plus purchase blockbuster and netflix and still have enough left >>> over to buy all of AT&T. After all of that, they would still have enough >>> cash laying around to make the profits of BP Oil look like loose change. >>> They could buy all of wal*mart and only start to break a sweat. >>> >>> at the end of all this, Apple would be the worlds largest corporation with >>> revenues exceeding the GNP of nearly 40 countries combined and rebuild all >>> that spent cash in less than 5 years. >>> >>> Now, considering I am a trained accountant with a business administration >>> background (courtesy of Glendale Community college) and I requested the >>> balance sheets on a number of corporations to see what was really happening >>> to our economy. the scenario above would be entirely possible if the US >>> Government had no RICO Laws. Just the assets that such a monster I have >>> described above would exceed the net worth of nearly all of Europe and some >>> of south America. I know that sounds highly ludicrous but that is what $113 >>> Billion IN CASH could do properly invested. at that level, the interest >>> being earned would start to earn its own interest in very short order. >>> >>> so yeah, it looks ridiculous, but that is the scale I am talking about >>> here. giving away 25 million mac minis wouldn't even put a dent in that and >>> I am not asking them to give them away, just give us a little hand up to >>> owning some real tools. >>> >>> -eric >>> >>> >>> On Mar 26, 2012, at 2:38 AM, Scott Howell wrote: >>> >>>> Eric, >>>> >>>> I don't know you or your financial situation beyond what you have said. >>>> However, I do understand how it can be difficult to "make ends" meet and >>>> how hard it is to save up and purchase something you want, but it is >>>> possible. There is no reason for APple to offer any product at a reduced >>>> price because of your disability. APple is a great company that has done >>>> amazing things, but APple is not a charity. Yes APple has lots of cash and >>>> the reason why APple has been successful is by using their money wisely >>>> and other companies should maybe take a page from APple's playbook and >>>> they could be in a good financial place. >>>> I mean no offense Eric, but I get a little worked up when I read messages >>>> making statements such as those you made. Blind people like any other >>>> group of individuals with a disability need opportunity not charity, A >>>> hand up not a hand out, and no matter if you have a "disability" or not it >>>> is up to you to determine your financial priorities so that you can >>>> purchase the things you want. Note that you does not refer to you as Eric. >>>> :) >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mar 26, 2012, at 5:22 AM, Eric Oyen wrote: >>>> >>>>> I really wish there was a financing program for the blind when it comes >>>>> to mac hardware (laptops, desktops, iPad, iPhone). given that I (and a >>>>> great many others) am living on a disability income (more than 85% of the >>>>> blind in the US are), I find it nearly impossible to save up for any >>>>> equipment. Hell, I had to make my own Hackintosh and load it with a store >>>>> purchased copy of snow leopard. It cost me $30 for the OS and about $400 >>>>> to assemble the machine. at minimum, I would have to spend nearly twice >>>>> that much for a comparably equipped mac mini and almost $1500 or more for >>>>> a reasonably powerful macbook pro/air. given that I have to spend my >>>>> money on medications, rent and food, there is no way I can even save up >>>>> for one at all. >>>>> >>>>> there used to be a "free macs for the blind" charity in Great Britain, >>>>> but the person running that organization was forced to give it up as >>>>> there were too many problems involved. We need something like that here >>>>> in North America, but I just don't see that happening. I tried to query >>>>> Apple about doing something like this and was given the polite brush off >>>>> (thats nice kid, here is a soda. now go over in the corner.). hell, they >>>>> have $115 Billion in CASH laying around they are not using. they could >>>>> earn themselves a lot of good publicity if they offered some macs to the >>>>> blind at a vastly discounted rate. it would also give them an in to a >>>>> market they don't currently have. >>>>> >>>>> anyway, time for me to climb down off the soapbox. >>>>> >>>>> -eric >>>>> >>>>> On Mar 26, 2012, at 1:38 AM, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> one thing that I can note that is not seeming to be mentioned is the >>>>>> fact that there ar certain Apps which are not available on iPhone / iPod >>>>>> Touch, yet, that are found on the iPad. >>>>>> >>>>>> The iPad from my prespective is purely for consumption, and I use it for >>>>>> news papers, which 4 of which are not found on the iPhone, and 5 are on >>>>>> the iPhone, but, only as reduced versions. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> Neil Barnfather >>>>>> >>>>>> Talks List Administrator >>>>>> Twitter @neilbarnfather >>>>>> >>>>>> TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an >>>>>> Apple iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your >>>>>> accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com >>>>>> >>>>>> URL: - www.talknav.com >>>>>> e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com >>>>>> Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 >>>>>> >>>>>> On 24 Mar 2012, at 08:43, David Hole wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> hi folks. >>>>>>> I just wonder, and many here have asked, so I thought I'd ask you in >>>>>>> this group. >>>>>>> What's the benefit for blind people to have an iPad instead of an >>>>>>> iPhone? >>>>>>> I mean, as far as I can see, the difference is only the screen size... >>>>>>> Am I right? >>>>>>> Actually I'd like to have one myself, but I can't find any good >>>>>>> reasons to have it, since I have both an iPhone and a Mac. >>>>>>> Hope someone here can give me reasons to get one :p >>>>>>> Best regards David >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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