Well, In my humble opinion, equality isn't there, so that, isn't fair treatment. the Americans with Disabilities Act should include the blind or visually \impaired just as vigorously as it does every other disability in this country.
there aren't any services, that I know of at this point, that the visually impaired community, or blind community receive that anyone else would consider unfair. Believe me, I've been almost totally blind all my life, and I can say from experience, that the simplest things that I've needed have had to be justified by education or work, which I can work because of other physical disabilities, and for education, I wasn't given the option of being taught braille in the beginning because I had some sight. So I can say out of experience, there isn't anything that I own, that I didn't beg, borrow, or barter, or finance within an inch of my disability, to get. to be very frank, there are a lot of things, such as that bar code reader they have on special on financing, which I can't afford, that my husband and I desperately need,, that I'll never be able to have. Only because I can't justify it to the government because we're not working. We both have physical limitations to prevent us from doing so, but because of that, we don't have the opportunity for the simplest and most basic of things to help us with independent cooking and identification skills. so I don't have a problem downloading anything that is descriptive from that site because I'm tired of being left out because I'm not able to work and can't afford the opportunities that I should get for things that others can. If I lived in the UK, things would be a lot different, and if I could get on a plane and become a citizen to the United Kingdom, I certainly would in, well, a New York minute. to make this apple related, the only reason I have this machine is because I had to put up with my Dad's crap and constant criticism for him to buy it for me. If it weren't for that, we wouldn't even be talking. Jenny On Apr 28, 2012, at 7:06 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote: > Hi, > > Keep in mind, fair doesn't always mean equal. I'm sure if we looked hard > enough, we can find some services offered exclusively to those who are > visually impaired and or blind. > > Ricardo Walker > rica...@appletothecore.info > Twitter:@apple2thecore > www.appletothecore.info > > On Apr 28, 2012, at 6:11 PM, Jenny Keller <jlperd...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> In my opinion, accessible movies, TV shows, appliances, etc, should fall >> under the ADA. >> >> Not to be politically incorrect here, but if people in wheelchairs can get >> them for free and most places are made to be accessible for them, and the >> deaf get closed captioning for almost every TV show and eventually DVD, and >> TTY phones and free relay services, then why isn't it mandatory that we get >> the same consideration. >> >> The fact is, we don't, and in my opinion, if we have to go to other sources >> to get it because this wonderful country of ours, who makes other >> disabilities have accessible products and services as mandatory, then we >> have do do it until we get our fair shake. >> >> It's fairness to all, or it shouldn't be for any. >> >> Go red, white, and blue:( >> >> Jenny >> On Apr 28, 2012, at 1:37 PM, Christine Grassman wrote: >> >>> Arguably, anything beyond the things required for daily living is a luxury. >>> Plenty of people do not have computers or TV's. I personally have found a >>> greater appreciation for movies and television shows when they are >>> described, and it is exceedingly frustrating when one cannot watch a >>> foreign film or dialogue-poor show. The level of audio description in the >>> UK versus what is available in the U.S. is astounding -- in fact, the bulk >>> of the audio description is done in Great Britain. I remember not going to >>> action movies with peers when I was younger, or not being invited, because >>> no one wanted to describe them to me. I remember people becoming annoyed >>> when my mother quietly described what was going on in a movie. >>> Even important information on news broadcasts is flashed across screens. If >>> it is possible to accommodate the print-disabled and visually impaired in >>> one country, it is possible in another. We should not have to pick and >>> choose among "luxuries" -- Shopping for appliances is another nightmare; I >>> am tired of having to get someone to go over touch screens and controls >>> with me so that I can memorize, mark controls, or make charts so that I can >>> use something for which I paid full price. Even companies which advertise >>> that they have "accessible manuals" either do not actually provide them or >>> only provide them in shorter, slimmed-down versions. >>> If something is accessible to people who want it and can afford it, it >>> should be accessible to all. Not only is their a fairness component, but a >>> social component: culturally, experientially, we are better integrated into >>> the social fabric of our societies when we have independent, real-world >>> access to the things our peers take for granted. >>> Christine >>> show >>> On Apr 28, 2012, at 1:34 PM, Eugenia Firth wrote: >>> >>>> Hi guys. >>>> I love audio description as much as any blind person could. Before you >>>> couldn't get them, I bought several movies on those tapes, movies I wanted >>>> to watch again. However, and maybe I'm showing my age here, but I consider >>>> audio description to be a luxury for us. I watched movies and TV just fine >>>> before we got it. >>>> >>>> Computer accessibility, however, including the Internet's accessibility, >>>> has become an increasingly frustrating necessity. I don't have statistics >>>> to back up my opinion, but I think we delude ourselves if we think we are >>>> a money-making proposition. Poor Apple has been braver than everybody else >>>> by jumping into the quicksand of accessibility. If the good folks in >>>> Cupertino are sorry they they made the plunge, they are being smart enough >>>> to be quiet about it. I think they will be better off than everyone else >>>> in that regard eventually, especially when the feds get involved in >>>> evaluating accessibility the education arena. At least Apple will have no >>>> trouble, unlike others, proving that the iPad, etc. is accessible to blind >>>> and other disabled students. >>>> >>>> A blind friend of mine was asking me about these new vending machines that >>>> touch screens. He was asking if there was an iPhone app to control those >>>> things because he's concerned that he won't even able to get a cold drink >>>> without extra help otherwise. As it is, at least at his work, he can count >>>> the buttons. I have another blind friend whose electric oven went out, and >>>> she a terrible time finding an accessible one. My microwave is still >>>> partially inaccessible since my husband has yet to put labels onto that >>>> mostly flat screen. When I go to Louisville this summer, I can just about >>>> guarantee that I can't independently watch TV, unless you guys can tell me >>>> of an iPhone app that will for sure work with the hotel's TV. >>>> >>>> I could go on and on giving examples. Without getting political, both >>>> blindness organizations have written resolutions for positive and/or >>>> negative motivators for some of these folks that are busy making our lives >>>> more and ore inaccessible. We lost the battle of the accessibility of >>>> curbing in our U.S. cities for blind folks, making our mobility more >>>> difficult. We can't afford to lose the computer accessibility thing. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Gigi >>>> >>>> Eugenia Firth >>>> gigifi...@sbcglobal.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 28, 2012, at 11:44 AM, Lewis Alexander wrote: >>>> >>>>> not getting it just yet, figuring out finances, etc so should have it end >>>>> of may. snowed under at the mo with a machine restoration. a vintage >>>>> industrial machine I'm completely rebuilding ready for use. so today's >>>>> been spray work and drying. tomorow's the same. >>>>> >>>>> then after that it's assembly work. >>>>> >>>>> lew >>>>> >>>>> On 28 Apr 2012, at 13:50, Donna Goodin wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Lew, >>>>>> >>>>>> congrats on your iPad. they really are cool devices. My husband has >>>>>> one, and I thought long and hard about getting one too. But eventually I >>>>>> decided that since I didn't need the larger screen, that the iPhone >>>>>> could do everything I needed, so it didn't make sense to duplicate >>>>>> devices. I confess, though, I'm envious. Every once in a while I look >>>>>> at my husband's iPad and get a sudden craving for coolaide. lol >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Donna >>>>>> On Apr 28, 2012, at 8:44 AM, Lewis Alexander wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> nice one donna, I fully agree. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> the iPad is a product which can truly change the lives of blind users >>>>>>> throughout the world. I'm in the process of buying an iPad as it's >>>>>>> needed for work both in the workshop and on site as a rep for a >>>>>>> company, so the online catalogue needs to be available and accessible >>>>>>> to me all the time, the iPad for me feels absolutely amazing, after >>>>>>> road testing the new model, I've fallen in love with it. I don't need a >>>>>>> wife, just an iPad lol >>>>>>> >>>>>>> lew >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 28 Apr 2012, at 13:39, Donna Goodin wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Christine, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm perplexed. How do you see the push to have iPads in classrooms as >>>>>>>> something that leaves the blind/VI student out? If anything, I see >>>>>>>> that as something that better enables us to participate, thanks to the >>>>>>>> fact that Apple has made the iPad a fully accessible device. >>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>> Donna >>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2012, at 8:36 AM, Christine Grassman wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> With all due respect, Scott, laws which disparately impact certain >>>>>>>>> groups or classes of people have been flouted through civil >>>>>>>>> disobedience since the introduction of legal systems, e.g., civil >>>>>>>>> rights, disability rights, employment rights, etc. The United States >>>>>>>>> might not exist were it not for disobeying laws. >>>>>>>>> I am an attorney, and it continues to amaze me how slowly the U.S. is >>>>>>>>> moving to accommodate disability, and how snail-paced the societal >>>>>>>>> shift in attitudes toward us has been. and it seems that whenever a >>>>>>>>> company like Apple makes great strides in accommodating blindness off >>>>>>>>> the shelf, plenty of other technologies come along and do not bother >>>>>>>>> to incorporate us into their equation. So many educational apps, for >>>>>>>>> example, are not accessible, though they could be, and given the push >>>>>>>>> now to have iPads in classrooms, once again blind, visually impaired, >>>>>>>>> and otherwise print-disabled students will be left out. Apple moves >>>>>>>>> us two steps forward, and "progress" (for others) moves us three >>>>>>>>> steps back. I should be able to turn on a television, flip a switch, >>>>>>>>> or turn on a transmitter, and get descriptions. I should be able to >>>>>>>>> access books on the Nook or the Kindle, not just iBooks. I cannot >>>>>>>>> express, and I am sure others here agree, the happiness I feel when a >>>>>>>>> new release or best-selling publication is available on iBooks. >>>>>>>>> (Incidentally, if a book is available on iBooks and on bookshare.org, >>>>>>>>> I purchase the book. Yet, I have lost quite a lot of money as a >>>>>>>>> published author -- as soon as my book was published, I sent a copy >>>>>>>>> to bookshare.org; it was more important to me to have it available at >>>>>>>>> the same time to the blind and print-disabled. The Authors Guild >>>>>>>>> apparently does not care about such access, despite the fact that >>>>>>>>> they would actually get money from us.) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would happily go to the movies more and happily purchase >>>>>>>>> audio-described movies through iTunes if they were available. Even >>>>>>>>> movies which are released with audio description are not always sold >>>>>>>>> through movie resellers -- goodness knows I have tried. To date, I >>>>>>>>> have only located The Incredible Hulk, from 2008, which I purchased >>>>>>>>> for my son. >>>>>>>>> Even Apple could do more. It could strengthen its requirements for >>>>>>>>> apps. It has provided developers with the means to make their apps >>>>>>>>> VoiceOver accessible, and there are plenty of apps out there which >>>>>>>>> could be so. Only apps that are visual by their very nature should be >>>>>>>>> exempted. But, as usual, profit trumps people, despite the fact that >>>>>>>>> the disabled community rewards those who remember us with our >>>>>>>>> business. >>>>>>>>> Frankly, I would prefer to purchase the audio-described movies and >>>>>>>>> shows I download from the vault, so that I could watch them with >>>>>>>>> sighted friends and family. I wish I could show a film to a class and >>>>>>>>> not have to ask my para or a student to tell me what is going on. The >>>>>>>>> entertainment industry gets plenty of my money. If they want more, >>>>>>>>> they should remember that I deserve to be able to access their >>>>>>>>> material independently. OK. Topic over. Those of you who wish to >>>>>>>>> continue this off-list are welcome; I've appreciated your >>>>>>>>> correspondence thus far. >>>>>>>>> Christine >>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2012, at 6:13 AM, Scott Howell wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I am sure commenting on this only adds fuel to the fire, but I did >>>>>>>>>> want to point out that as I recall the person that is responsible >>>>>>>>>> for this movie vault thing also runs a legit company. I would find >>>>>>>>>> it difficult to believe that he has not checked into this because no >>>>>>>>>> one would want to put their business assets at risk. If there truly >>>>>>>>>> is an investigation then prove it. I get pretty annoyed when people >>>>>>>>>> claim something, but cannot or do not provide any reference to back >>>>>>>>>> those claims. And for the record I do not condone pirating of any >>>>>>>>>> kind and believe that regardless of accessibility issues even blind >>>>>>>>>> people must follow the laws. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Apr 27, 2012, at 10:51 PM, Christine Grassman wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Naturally, if the moderator deems this discussion verboten, I will >>>>>>>>>>> refrain further, but I would feel remiss not to point out the >>>>>>>>>>> following for consideration: >>>>>>>>>>> 1. As of several hours ago, there was nothing on the FBI's official >>>>>>>>>>> web site regarding an investigation, nor were there any press >>>>>>>>>>> releases or other comparable references to an investigation of the >>>>>>>>>>> movie vault. A reference would be appreciated; mere speculation or >>>>>>>>>>> rumor could be deemed libelous. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 2. The problem industries have with illegal file-sharing is loss of >>>>>>>>>>> revenue. Since, at least in the United States, there is virtually >>>>>>>>>>> no way to purchase audio-described movies or television shows, the >>>>>>>>>>> industry is not being cheated of revenue. >>>>>>>>>>> 3. The files are straight audio, with no ability, for example, to >>>>>>>>>>> "watch" with sighted peers while having the benefit of the audio >>>>>>>>>>> description. This is not at all remotely similar to downloading a >>>>>>>>>>> film for the family to watch. That being said, the vast majority of >>>>>>>>>>> the sighted community does this with impunity, even though many of >>>>>>>>>>> the shows and movies they download can be seen for free when they >>>>>>>>>>> are are shown on television. We, on the other hand, cannot even >>>>>>>>>>> enjoy full access to these shows when they *are* on television. >>>>>>>>>>> Either they are not audio-described at all, or it is not easy to >>>>>>>>>>> turn on the secondary audio channel, or a particular station only >>>>>>>>>>> carries foreign language broadcasts on the SAC rather than audio >>>>>>>>>>> description. Comparing access to audio-described movies and shows >>>>>>>>>>> in mp3 format to the type of file-sharing which goes on 24/7 on >>>>>>>>>>> hundreds and thousands of sites is a stretch. >>>>>>>>>>> 4. If the government and/or the involved industries wish to do >>>>>>>>>>> something about the existence of resources like the movie vault, >>>>>>>>>>> the former should mandate, and the latter should provide a market >>>>>>>>>>> from which we can obtain these items. I have been able to watch a >>>>>>>>>>> non-described movie with others after listening to an mp3 file and >>>>>>>>>>> tell another blind person what is going on thanks to that previous >>>>>>>>>>> experience. My two blind children have been able to enjoy fare >>>>>>>>>>> which their peers enjoyed months or years ago. Until the >>>>>>>>>>> entertainment industry levels the playing field, I will utilize >>>>>>>>>>> resources like the movie vault with the same guiltless pleasure I >>>>>>>>>>> take in bookshare.org (and, by the way, it is possible to download >>>>>>>>>>> books from bookshare.org which are available commercially.) We >>>>>>>>>>> cannot use the Kindle as others do. WE cannot use the Nook. We >>>>>>>>>>> are severely limited in what we can access independently when it >>>>>>>>>>> comes to entertainment, and we must even still fight for access to >>>>>>>>>>> education at every level, despite technological advances. Holding >>>>>>>>>>> us to the same standards as the vast majority of illegal >>>>>>>>>>> file-sharers is legally, morally, and economically inequitable. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Christine >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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