While I agree 100 percent that Eloquence is the only speech that is efficient enough to actually get things done with, I've never been particularly fond of it. Not sure that makes sense given that I've used Glen more or less exclusively for the past 12 years or so, but on the whole, I think Eloquence is seriously over-rated. True, it's the only thing I use on the PC side, but that's out of necessity, not because I find it pleasant or anything. I don't use the RealSpeak voices on the mac either, though. I even bought the acapella voices, but still find myself only using Alex as a general rule. So, while I can see both sides of the coin on the eloquence thing, it's nothing I'd get all excited about if Apple ever incorporated it. In most cases, Alex is responsive enough for my needs on the mac. I'd love to see a female equivelent of Alex, though. Alice, perhaps? It's just that when it comes to those higher quality voices, I find the female ones slightly easier to understand in most cases.
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Daniel McGee Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 9:39 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: what Voiceover bugs people want or are hoping will be fixed or squashed in Mountain Lion? eloquence 100% is for me. If I had this, then I wouldn't be using windows anymore there's something about the voice that I can listen to it and I don't get tired of it. I have a hearing impairment and find it is more clear understandable in words than these silly nuance voices. I don't want that to be offending to anyone who uses the nuance real speak voices but for me, I just don't understand them clearly, to slow no matter how much I speed them up I can't understand them when they are really fast anyway and lastly too slow even when I can follow them. Ohand caps lock gets my vote too. If the day comes where Apple have eloquence added to the list of VO voices, will be the day where I differently upgrade my OS! How do others feel about eloquence being added? You got me started on this one! LOL Daniel On 3 Jul 2012, at 12:47, Chris Moore wrote: > I guess that makes sense. I suppose that is the charm of VO, it can be used > in so many different ways. > > If I am using my iMac, then I tend to use the numeric keypad., and if I am > using my iOS devices I use quick nav via a bluetooth keyboard, and when using my Macbook I use the track pad. > > Caps lock gets my vote too then if anyone at Apple is listening. > > HOw about built in OCR anyone? or would anyone like to see eloquence added to > the voice list too? > > Chris > > > On 3 Jul 2012, at 12:18, Garth Humphreys wrote: > >> I prefer not to have to take my fingers off the home keys. It is not so much >> with the arrow keys that I would want to use the caps lock key but with the other vo commands. I can't help think that the caps lock key is a complete waste of prime keyboard real-estate, if you know what I mean. It is much more efficient to my way of thinking to just move your little finger to the caps lock key as compared to either removing your left or right hand from it's home keys to press the current VO modifiers. >> >> Garth >> iblindtech.com >> >> On 03/07/2012, at 8:39 PM, Chris Moore wrote: >> >>> Well with any luck Apple may head in this direction, as they appear to have >>> got the message with iOS 6 that zoom and voice over at the same time would be beneficial. If it was improved and there were better contrast colour schemes, I may consider using it myself. I sometimes fire up ZoomText on my work PC when using JAWS to sometimes find that button within a web page that JAWS can't see or a dialog window that JAWS refuses to read. >>> >>> So where would you see using the caps lock over using quick nav? >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Chris >>> On 3 Jul 2012, at 10:31, Garth Humphreys wrote: >>> >>>> There are a few bugs when zoomed to high levels, i.e., more than 14X or >>>> so. If you have VO running and zoom set to follow the keyboard focus you will find that the command tab to switch between apps becomes unreliable and navigating the menu bar with the arrow keys is also unreliable. Also I don't like the way it tracks and works with reading text. I'd like better colour options and keyboard commands to adjust them, or at least for the invert brightness keyboard command not to conflict with a Voice Over command. You would think that Apple would be able to sort out keyboard command conflicts between two of their own accessibility utilities. I am sure there are work arounds for some of these but a work around isn't the same as fixing the problem. For example the menu navigation issue I mentioned does not occur if you use swipes on the trackpad with trackpad commander to navigate the menu. It only happens with the arrow keys - strange but there you are. >>>> >>>> If I used it regularly I would probably come across more of the issues. It >>>> really doesn't seem to me that apple intended the two utilities to work together or at least that this was an edge case. It would seem to me that they expected people to use either option exclusively and if so, they are probably right. Most people probably do use one or the other. >>>> >>>> I'd also love to see the safari busy issue buried deep. >>>> >>>> The addition of the ability to set the caps lock key to act as the VO >>>> modifier would also be great. >>>> >>>> Garth >>>> iblindtech.com >>>> On 03/07/2012, at 6:48 PM, Chris Moore wrote: >>>> >>>>> What improvements would you like fixed in particular when it comes to >>>>> zoom? >>>>> On 3 Jul 2012, at 09:44, Garth Humphreys wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I'd love to see some improvements to the way VO works with Zoom and just >>>>>> some improvements to Zoom in general. I mostly don't use Zoom on my Mac but this only because it is so poor when compared to things like ZoomText in the windows world. It is probably great if you don't need to use Voice Over or if you only need a little enlargement but it falls completely short for me. >>>>>> >>>>>> Garth >>>>>> iblindtech.com >>>>>> >>>>>> On 03/07/2012, at 6:26 PM, Chris Moore wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Riccardo, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Actually that is what I was hinting at to be honest, as i feel the >>>>>>> method of selecting text within Safari is rather sloppy. You can also navigate by line within iOS, so hoped that feature would come across to OS X. Navigating by line is also useful when trying to read pages that have been styled into columns via CSS instead of a table. This can be done in JAWS quite nicely. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>> On 3 Jul 2012, at 00:11, Ricardo Walker wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I doubt you will see the reading by line with the down arrow. That >>>>>>>> would radically change the way VO navigates the web, and I'm not sure it would be for the better. It would be selecting text easier though. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ricardo Walker >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> Twitter:@apple2thecore >>>>>>>> www.appletothecore.info >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jul 2, 2012, at 6:37 PM, Chris Moore <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hmmm I remember a while back putting a list of 15 improvements. I >>>>>>>>> can't remember them all now, so perhaps I have just learnt to live without them. I did report them to Apple though as bugs and feature enhancements. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The VoiceOver busy is the biggest annoyance which is caused by the >>>>>>>>> pathetic slow buffering system voice over uses. So I would like to see that rewritten from the ground up. There are a few random performance bugs that happen now and then which require me to switch voice over off then back on again. So overall performance could do with being improved. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would also like to know what web page I am looking at when >>>>>>>>> switching between tabs, being told that is an HTML page is not exactly helpful. I would also like to navigate line by line just by pressing the down arrow or up key. VO still needs a bit of work when reporting how many HMTL elements are on a web page, some windows screen readers seem to find more tables and headings than VO, especially in the buggy rotor. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would like the ability to edit form fields in a PDF with Preview, >>>>>>>>> but I believe this is coming in the next Mountain Lion release (according to Apple's website). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would appreciate MIDI event editing in GarageBand, and a huge >>>>>>>>> update to iWork. There just is not enough accessible productive software on the Mac. There is more to using a Mac than just Skype and Mail surely? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Not sure if that bug still exists when using the real speak voices >>>>>>>>> where the pitch used to shift up and down randomly. I stopped using those voices as it became too annoying. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would also like the ability to edit voice over's dictionary. For >>>>>>>>> example if you type third as in the number 3 followed by the letters r and d, you get 3rd (three road), surely this should be a third? So I think the ability to edit some of VO's assumptions would be nice, or maybe VO should grow up and become a tad more intelligent. I would like more control over how VO reads out numbers too. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Maybe developers should also be given the option to name what VO >>>>>>>>> calls an HTML area, as something else? For example when using adium the chat window is called an HTML area, am sure a chat window or conversation window would be more meaningful. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Last but not least, I find VO a bit slow when first entering the >>>>>>>>> iTunes store. The page takes a while to render. Well actually visually it does not, but VO seems to think it does. Actually come to mention it when VO says something is busy, a sighted person can still move the mouse and perform the action they require, it is just VO's buffer which is busy. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I spotted another bug today too. When ordering a smart case for my >>>>>>>>> iPad, VO was unable to read out the colour options. When trying to select a colour, VO simply said "space radio button" for each of the 6 colours. The work around seemed to be select a colour, go back to the top of the screen and read out the description to see if the default green had changed. Or look in the basket and hope to god you have not selected pink. I eventually performed this task via the Apple Store app on my iPhone which performed perfectly. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>> On 2 Jul 2012, at 19:16, Daniel McGee wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi all, a while ago on this list I saw someone mention that they >>>>>>>>>> would like so and so bug to be fixed in Mountain Lion. >>>>>>>>>> I would just really like to start a discussion on if there are not >>>>>>>>>> many enhancements to Voiceover in the next OS, then what bugs would you like fixed and hope Apple has done there job with it. >>>>>>>>>> I'll go 1st. >>>>>>>>>> For me its safari. two things for me. >>>>>>>>>> 1. Now and then when I go back a page with CMD left bracket >>>>>>>>>> Voiceover doesn't announce my list of headings or links that I have set in VO utility. >>>>>>>>>> 2. continuing this previous page thing, because I don't always know >>>>>>>>>> when the page is fully loaded when going back, I get the lovely "Voiceover Busy!" Not! >>>>>>>>>> This is using Lion V7.4 and Safari 5.1.7 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So what are yours? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I hope this will become an interesting topic because I'm interested >>>>>>>>>> to see what people can come up with and I'm sure there will be some good ones! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So everyone, the dance floor is yours! LOL >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Daniel >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
