Here is something I want fixed.
Every now and again when I use the Force Quit Application thing the
window will stay open after it closes the application.
I can't command tab to the screen and can't interact with it at all but
my wife will say it is covering my screen.
Pretty annoying.
On Jul 4, 2012, at 10:23 PM, Harry Hogue wrote:
> jesús, this is a fascinating discussion. Personally, I use Fred on a daily
> basis for reading in English, and Paulina when reading in Spanish. Alex is
> okay, but I prefer a responsive Voice, and I find that I'm able to move about
> the Mac more quickly using Fred. I have tried Javier for Spanish, but find
> him less understandable.
>
> On Jul 4, 2012, at 6:49 AM, Jesus Garcia wrote:
>
>> Same here with regards to male voices rather than female, though I have no
>> major issues with Samantha. Can someone post how to download and install the
>> realspeak voices for the mac?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [email protected]
>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Daniel McGee
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 08:26
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: what Voiceover bugs people want or are hoping will be fixed or
>> squashed in Mountain Lion?
>>
>> Interesting, because I'm the opposite. I would rather use eloquence and I
>> would rather use male voices than female. I guess it all comes down to
>> personal taste in the end.
>>
>> Daniel
>> On 3 Jul 2012, at 14:47, Missy Hoppe wrote:
>>
>>> While I agree 100 percent that Eloquence is the only speech that is
>>> efficient enough to actually get things done with, I've never been
>>> particularly fond of it. Not sure that makes sense given that I've
>>> used Glen more or less exclusively for the past
>>> 12 years or so, but on the whole, I think Eloquence is seriously
>>> over-rated. True, it's the only thing I use on the PC side, but that's
>>> out of necessity, not because I find it pleasant or anything. I don't
>>> use the RealSpeak voices on the mac either, though. I even bought the
>>> acapella voices, but still find myself only using Alex as a general
>>> rule. So, while I can see both sides of the coin on the eloquence
>>> thing, it's nothing I'd get all excited about if Apple ever incorporated
>> it. In most cases, Alex is responsive enough for my needs on the mac. I'd
>> love to see a female equivelent of Alex, though. Alice, perhaps? It's just
>> that when it comes to those higher quality voices, I find the female ones
>> slightly easier to understand in most cases.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [email protected]
>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Daniel McGee
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 9:39 AM
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Subject: Re: what Voiceover bugs people want or are hoping will be fixed
>> or squashed in Mountain Lion?
>>>
>>> eloquence 100% is for me. If I had this, then I wouldn't be using
>>> windows anymore there's something about the voice that I can listen to
>>> it and I don't get tired of it. I have a hearing impairment and find
>>> it is more clear understandable in words than these silly nuance
>>> voices. I don't want that to be offending to anyone who uses the nuance
>> real speak voices but for me, I just don't understand them clearly, to slow
>> no matter how much I speed them up I can't understand them when they are
>> really fast anyway and lastly too slow even when I can follow them.
>>> Ohand caps lock gets my vote too.
>>> If the day comes where Apple have eloquence added to the list of VO
>>> voices, will be the day where I differently upgrade my OS!
>>>
>>> How do others feel about eloquence being added?
>>> You got me started on this one! LOL
>>>
>>> Daniel
>>> On 3 Jul 2012, at 12:47, Chris Moore wrote:
>>>
>>>> I guess that makes sense. I suppose that is the charm of VO, it can be
>> used in so many different ways.
>>>>
>>>> If I am using my iMac, then I tend to use the numeric keypad., and if
>>>> I am using my iOS devices I use quick nav via a
>>> bluetooth keyboard, and when using my Macbook I use the track pad.
>>>>
>>>> Caps lock gets my vote too then if anyone at Apple is listening.
>>>>
>>>> HOw about built in OCR anyone? or would anyone like to see eloquence
>> added to the voice list too?
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3 Jul 2012, at 12:18, Garth Humphreys wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I prefer not to have to take my fingers off the home keys. It is not
>>>>> so much with the arrow keys that I would want to use
>>> the caps lock key but with the other vo commands. I can't help think
>>> that the caps lock key is a complete waste of prime keyboard
>>> real-estate, if you know what I mean. It is much more efficient to my
>>> way of thinking to just move your little finger to the caps lock key as
>> compared to either removing your left or right hand from it's home keys to
>> press the current VO modifiers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Garth
>>>>> iblindtech.com
>>>>>
>>>>> On 03/07/2012, at 8:39 PM, Chris Moore wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well with any luck Apple may head in this direction, as they appear
>>>>>> to have got the message with iOS 6 that zoom and
>>> voice over at the same time would be beneficial. If it was improved
>>> and there were better contrast colour schemes, I may consider using it
>>> myself. I sometimes fire up ZoomText on my work PC when using JAWS to
>> sometimes find that button within a web page that JAWS can't see or a dialog
>> window that JAWS refuses to read.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So where would you see using the caps lock over using quick nav?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>> On 3 Jul 2012, at 10:31, Garth Humphreys wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are a few bugs when zoomed to high levels, i.e., more than
>>>>>>> 14X or so. If you have VO running and zoom set to
>>> follow the keyboard focus you will find that the command tab to switch
>>> between apps becomes unreliable and navigating the menu bar with the
>>> arrow keys is also unreliable. Also I don't like the way it tracks and
>>> works with reading text. I'd like better colour options and keyboard
>>> commands to adjust them, or at least for the invert brightness
>>> keyboard command not to conflict with a Voice Over command. You would
>>> think that Apple would be able to sort out keyboard command conflicts
>> between two of their own accessibility utilities. I am sure there are work
>> arounds for some of these but a work around isn't the same as fixing the
>> problem. For example the menu navigation issue I mentioned does not occur if
>> you use swipes on the trackpad with trackpad commander to navigate the menu.
>> It only happens with the arrow keys - strange but there you are.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If I used it regularly I would probably come across more of the
>>>>>>> issues. It really doesn't seem to me that apple intended
>>> the two utilities to work together or at least that this was an edge
>>> case. It would seem to me that they expected people to use either option
>> exclusively and if so, they are probably right. Most people probably do use
>> one or the other.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd also love to see the safari busy issue buried deep.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The addition of the ability to set the caps lock key to act as the VO
>> modifier would also be great.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Garth
>>>>>>> iblindtech.com
>>>>>>> On 03/07/2012, at 6:48 PM, Chris Moore wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What improvements would you like fixed in particular when it comes to
>> zoom?
>>>>>>>> On 3 Jul 2012, at 09:44, Garth Humphreys wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'd love to see some improvements to the way VO works with Zoom
>>>>>>>>> and just some improvements to Zoom in general. I
>>> mostly don't use Zoom on my Mac but this only because it is so poor
>>> when compared to things like ZoomText in the windows world. It is
>>> probably great if you don't need to use Voice Over or if you only need a
>> little enlargement but it falls completely short for me.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Garth
>>>>>>>>> iblindtech.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 03/07/2012, at 6:26 PM, Chris Moore wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Riccardo,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Actually that is what I was hinting at to be honest, as i feel
>>>>>>>>>> the method of selecting text within Safari is rather
>>> sloppy. You can also navigate by line within iOS, so hoped that
>>> feature would come across to OS X. Navigating by line is also useful
>>> when trying to read pages that have been styled into columns via CSS
>> instead of a table. This can be done in JAWS quite nicely.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>>>> On 3 Jul 2012, at 00:11, Ricardo Walker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I doubt you will see the reading by line with the down arrow.
>>>>>>>>>>> That would radically change the way VO navigates the
>>> web, and I'm not sure it would be for the better. It would be selecting
>> text easier though.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ricardo Walker
>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>>>>>> Twitter:@apple2thecore
>>>>>>>>>>> www.appletothecore.info
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 2, 2012, at 6:37 PM, Chris Moore
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hmmm I remember a while back putting a list of 15
>>>>>>>>>>>> improvements. I can't remember them all now, so perhaps I
>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>> just learnt to live without them. I did report them to Apple though as
>> bugs and feature enhancements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The VoiceOver busy is the biggest annoyance which is caused by
>> the pathetic slow buffering system voice over uses.
>>> So I would like to see that rewritten from the ground up. There are a
>>> few random performance bugs that happen now and then which require me to
>> switch voice over off then back on again. So overall performance could do
>> with being improved.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I would also like to know what web page I am looking at when
>>>>>>>>>>>> switching between tabs, being told that is an HTML
>>> page is not exactly helpful. I would also like to navigate line by
>>> line just by pressing the down arrow or up key. VO still needs a bit
>>> of work when reporting how many HMTL elements are on a web page, some
>> windows screen readers seem to find more tables and headings than VO,
>> especially in the buggy rotor.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I would like the ability to edit form fields in a PDF with
>>>>>>>>>>>> Preview, but I believe this is coming in the next
>>> Mountain Lion release (according to Apple's website).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I would appreciate MIDI event editing in GarageBand, and a
>>>>>>>>>>>> huge update to iWork. There just is not enough
>>> accessible productive software on the Mac. There is more to using a Mac
>> than just Skype and Mail surely?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Not sure if that bug still exists when using the real speak
>>>>>>>>>>>> voices where the pitch used to shift up and down
>>> randomly. I stopped using those voices as it became too annoying.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I would also like the ability to edit voice over's
>>>>>>>>>>>> dictionary. For example if you type third as in the number 3
>>> followed by the letters r and d, you get 3rd (three road), surely this
>>> should be a third? So I think the ability to edit some of VO's
>>> assumptions would be nice, or maybe VO should grow up and become a tad
>> more intelligent. I would like more control over how VO reads out numbers
>> too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe developers should also be given the option to name what
>>>>>>>>>>>> VO calls an HTML area, as something else? For
>>> example when using adium the chat window is called an HTML area, am
>>> sure a chat window or conversation window would be more meaningful.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Last but not least, I find VO a bit slow when first entering the
>> iTunes store. The page takes a while to render.
>>> Well actually visually it does not, but VO seems to think it does.
>>> Actually come to mention it when VO says something is busy, a sighted
>> person can still move the mouse and perform the action they require, it is
>> just VO's buffer which is busy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I spotted another bug today too. When ordering a smart case
>>>>>>>>>>>> for my iPad, VO was unable to read out the colour
>>> options. When trying to select a colour, VO simply said "space radio
>>> button" for each of the 6 colours. The work around seemed to be
>>> select a colour, go back to the top of the screen and read out the
>>> description to see if the default green had changed. Or look in the
>> basket and hope to god you have not selected pink. I eventually performed
>> this task via the Apple Store app on my iPhone which performed perfectly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2 Jul 2012, at 19:16, Daniel McGee wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, a while ago on this list I saw someone mention that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they would like so and so bug to be fixed in Mountain
>>> Lion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would just really like to start a discussion on if there
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are not many enhancements to Voiceover in the next OS,
>>> then what bugs would you like fixed and hope Apple has done there job with
>> it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll go 1st.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> For me its safari. two things for me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Now and then when I go back a page with CMD left bracket
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Voiceover doesn't announce my list of headings or
>>> links that I have set in VO utility.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. continuing this previous page thing, because I don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> always know when the page is fully loaded when going back,
>>> I get the lovely "Voiceover Busy!" Not!
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is using Lion V7.4 and Safari 5.1.7
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So what are yours?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I hope this will become an interesting topic because I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>> interested to see what people can come up with and I'm
>>> sure there will be some good ones!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So everyone, the dance floor is yours! LOL
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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