I echo the use of the tab key and Quick Nav. I use Quick Nav a lot of the time and find it very efficient. You just need to get to learn when it's appropriate/quick and when switching it off would serve you better.
A small point I would dispute is David Woodbridge starting his podcasts at a certain known point. I think this is the only way to create a podcast which is consistent and applies to as wide a range of people as possible. There are so many possible starting points otherwise: I've just started Mail and my VO cursor is set to focus on the keyboard focus; or not; or I want to start Mail with Quick Nav on or off and so on. So I guess he picks a consistent starting point to make the podcasts manageable and give people a consistent learning experience. I haven't herd enough to comment on whether too many trainers focus too much on VO commands as opposed to the OS. I do know a lot of Windows screen reader trainers do this. I would say that from reading the VO Getting Started guide it was pretty clear which were VO commands and which were OS ones so that's a good resource for anyone who learns in that way... Catherine On 2/27/14, David Taylor <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi, > > There are two things here. Firstly, you do not have to interact much of the > time when people say you do, it's a case of learning the settings and the > operating system just like in Windows. For instance, when I go into Mail, my > VO is set to land me where the keyboard focus is so it lands me straight in > the message list. Personally, I think more emphasis should be put on real > world usage in these podcasts. Let me take David Woodbridge as an example. > His podcasts are generally excellent and helpful, but he makes what I, > personally, think are a couple of asumptions that just don't reflect the > natural way to interact with a computer. Firstly, he assumes that you always > start from a specific, known, position, and secondly, he only teaches > VoiceOver. Unless it is absolutely unavoidable, he does not teach built in > OS keystrokes and concepts. It would be comparable to teaching people using > Jaws only to move word by word using the insert key method, and to do > everything using the Jaws cursor rather than built in Windows keystrokes. > David's methods are great for getting people doing specific tasks, but often > not in the most efficient ways, and often not going deep enough or actually > explaining enough. I tend to think that most Mac teachers make this mistake, > I'm not picking on one person, just using the specific example as I know, > use, and value David's work a lot. > > The concept of interaction, in my mind, is generally helpful. The idea is > that VoiceOver gives you an overview of what is on the screen and the > ability to get around it quickly. For instance, whereas in any Windows > screen reader, if you find a toolbar (Which you will only do if you know the > right keyboard commands), there is no quick way of getting past it. With > VoiceOver, each control, or element, appears as just that, an element. Some > elements you will generally want to deal with, which is where interaction > could become an issue, but many, you want the ability to skip over, so > VoiceOver is built on the idea that if you want to use it, you will interact > with it. > > There are a couple of things you can do to seriously limit how often you > have to interact. Check that your VoiceOver is set for initial position to > keyboard focus, not to first element. In most apps, you will then land > exactly where you want to be. Secondly, and I think this is default > behaviour, make sure the setting tab key interacts is set to on. This way, > whenever you use the tab key to get to a control, you will automatically be > interacting with it, and you won't have to uninteract to tab or shift-tab to > the previous control. Another piece of faulty advice is to never use the tab > key in Mac. Rather, you need to remember that the tab key will act a little > like it does in Windows, in that it will take you to the next control the > app dev thinks you might want to use it to get to, While it is always > advisable to learn apps using the VO keys navigation method, you may well > find that, when you know what you are doing, in many cases, you will use the > tab key just as much. > > Finally, I don't see how anyone who learns to use Quick Nav can find > interaction a problem. The ability to skip around and navigate without > moving your fingers at all is invaluable, and interaction becomes such an > easy process. Personally, unless I am in a file list or something, if I am > going to use a few navigation commands in a row, I always switch to Quick > Nav. The reason I don't in file lists? I don't want to interact, so I want > to use the built in, OS X keystrokes, to do things, simply arrowing up and > down lists, using command-down to open and command-up to close etc. As soon > as I press command-2, I am right in that list view so don't need to navigate > to it, and the same is true if I use one of the keystrokes to get to > specific folders. > > In short, I am saying what they say for every operating system: learn both > your screen reader and the operating system if you want to use it at all > efficiently. > > Cheers > Dave > > On 27 Feb 2014, at 09:45, Lee Jones <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Dear List I wondered if some kind soul could explain the concept of >> interaction on the mac. On podcasts you get taught how to use it but not >> what the underlying premise is behind it. What are the benefits of >> setting up a screen reader this way. I find interaction an irritation. >> On windows in outlook I'm immediately in the messages list I don't have to >> interact with the list first. To me it just feels like interaction is >> always another keystroke between me and where I want to get to. >> >> Many Thanks Lee >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- Twitter: CTurner1980 My blog: http://catherineturner.wordpress.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
