On Thu, Feb 5, 2026 at 2:21 PM Stephen J. Turnbull <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Here's the promised followup, starting where I left off earlier.
>
>  >> Here's the Postfix doc:
>  >>
>  >>     permit_auth_destination
>  >>     Permit the request when one of the following is true:
>  >>
>  >>       - Postfix is a mail forwarder: the resolved RCPT TO domain
>  >>         matches $relay_domains or a subdomain thereof, and the address
>  >>         contains no sender-specified routing (user@elsewhere@domain),
>  >>       - Postfix is the final destination: the resolved RCPT TO domain
>  >>         matches $mydestination, $inet_interfaces, $proxy_interfaces,
>  >>         $virtual_alias_domains, or $virtual_mailbox_domains, and the
>  >>         address contains no sender-specified routing
>  >>         (user@elsewhere@domain).
>
>  > I did read the documentation before adding it, I definitely
>  > misunderstood what it meant, and after looking at the old
>  > documentation, it makes sense not to add it.
>  >
>  > Could you help me understand what the above means?
>
> The name "permit_auth_destination" means that when the domain part of
> the recipient is *authorized*, Postfix should proceed to route the
> mail to final delivery.  It can still be rejected (for example, if the
> "user" part doesn't exist at "domain"), but checking that the final
> destination host is authorized is an easy and cheap first screen.
>
> The two bullet points *define* "authorized".  Both contain the phrase
> "and the address contains no sender-specified routing".  This
> condition is imposed because
> (1) you can't be sure that the MTA at "domain" will relay to
>     "elsewhere" rather than "spyagency, so stripping off
>     "user@elsewhere" and checking if "elsewhere" is authorized isn't
>     reliable, and
> (2) on the modern Internet there's no need for sender-specified
>     routing anyway.
> Both bullet points start with "Postfix is ...", but more fully this
> should be "Postfix is acting to ... this message".
>
> The first bullet point then is saying "when the domain matches
> $relay_domains or a subdomain, go ahead and relay."  In other words,
> this Postfix is acting as the MX for the domains in $relay_domains.
>
> The second bullet point is more complex, but it basically amounts to
> various ways of saying "the final destination is local", or more
> formally, under administrative control of the Postfix administrator
> (and that's the difference with relay_domains, which are cooperative
> agreements with those domains, but not controlled by this Postfix's
> administrator).  To understand why each of those variables means
> "local", I'll ask you to look first at the Postfix docs because I'm
> getting tired ;-):  https://www.postfix.org/postconf.5.html.
>

Thank you, this was helpful.


>
>  > Yes, this host is dedicated to Mailman.
>
> See comments above each restriction:
>
>  > These are listed in smtpd_relay_restrictions;
>  >             /* local IP addresses */
>  >             permit_mynetworks
>  >             /* explicitly authenticated *sender* by SASL */
>  >             permit_sasl_authenticated
>  >             /* reject destinations not authorized by
>  >                permit_auth_destinations */
>  >             reject_unauth_destination
>  >             /* I think these two are redundant, messages rejected
>  >                by them can't get past reject_unauth_destination */
>  >             reject_unknown_recipient_domain
>  >             reject_non_fqdn_recipient
>  >             /* This is complicated, but the main point is that the
>  >                above criteria can be bypassed by aliases */
>  >             reject_unlisted_recipient
>
>
Very helpful, thank you!


>  > I'll remove permit_sasl_authenticated, as my assumption no longer
>  > holds.  That's why I disabled it earlier because I remembered it
>  > was never used for delivery, but then I remembered there was a
>  > conversation about the marketing alias so I assumed it was used for
>  > sending out emails.
>
> That sounds right to me based on our conversations, but if you change
> your mind and decide you want to add more conditions, feel free to
> consult then.
>

Thank you, I hope that doesn't happen.


>
>  > I did set one for the mailman user, seems I'll have to remove it and
>  > disable saslauthd too.
>
> Yes, I think it's best to require that access to 'su mailman' be
> restricted to root and/or sudo.
>

Yes, this is the case at the moment.

I've deleted the user password for mailman.


>
>  > Yes, this is where I'm headed as that's what I need.
>
> Good luck!
>

Thank you!
I'll have to look at why the confirmation email gets bounced later, this is
all I have time for.


> From your second message:
>
>  > After making the above changes I talked about, mail transfer seems
>  > to work as expected,
>
> Hurray!
>
>  > although I noticed users signing up don't get their confirmation
>  > emails delivered for some reason, saw this in the logs;
>  >
>  > (1632818)
> <[email protected]>
>  > delivery to [email protected] failed with code 550, b'5.1.1
>  > <[email protected]>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in
> local
>  > recipient table'
>  >
>  > What would be the best way to ensure that these get delivered?
>
> I don't understand why this would not be delivered.  My best guess
> would be that you have "sugarlabs.org" in $mydomain (this is actually
> Postfix's default), so that Postfix thinks lists.sugarlabs.org is a
> mail gateway for the parent domain.  What "mail gateway" means is that
> this host has direct write access to mailboxes "at" that domain.  This
> could be because it's a local or network file system mounted on this
> host, or it could be a network transport to an IMAP server, that kind
> of thing.  But "lists" isn't a gateway in that sense.
>

I've changed mydomain to lists.sugarlabs.org, and tried again, let's see if
that works.

>
>  > I think I went into this rabbit hole because of this particular
>  > issue above, and I thought something was wrong, mail was always
>  > sent to the mailman user and I thought that was odd, but now I know
>  > that's expected as that's the user that Mailman runs on.
>
> Yes, I think that what's happening is that "something went wrong" and
> some error message was mailed back to <[email protected]>.
>

Thank you for all your help, I really appreciate it.


>
> Sincere regards,
>
> Steve
>
> --
> GNU Mailman consultant (installation, migration, customization)
> Sirius Open Source    https://www.siriusopensource.com/
> Software systems consulting in Europe, North America, and Japan
>


-- 

Ibiam Chihurumnaya
[email protected]
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