At 11:45 AM -0700 2004-09-25, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
Um, Apple has supported Mailman for years. They pay my salary, and have fully supported me in putting my time and energy into this project.
The problem is that there are different groups within Apple. There's the group you're a part of, and which has been a strong supporter of Mailman for a long time. Then there's the group that is responsible for developing and supporting MacOS X Server (a separate product from the regular MacOS X "Client").
Unfortunately, the latter group is well-known to effectively ignore support requests, even from customers paying thousands upon thousands of dollars per year in support contracts. Their answer for many problems is to wipe and re-install, even if the real problem is a simple mis-configuration that can be corrected through the custom GUI that they have developed -- and if you won't or can't afford to apply their Universal Solution for All Problems, then they simply disconnect you and refuse to provide any further support.
Moreover, it is this latter group which has taken the Mailman code and developed their own custom management GUI, and who refuse to provide any feedback to the Mailman project as to what they've done or how any of their bits interface with ours.
Since they refuse to provide any real support for MacOS X Server with respect to Mailman, and they don't provide us the information we would need so that we could provide that support, we are left in an untenable situation.
The Mailman project is not the only group to be put in such a bad situation by the MacOS X Server development/support team. I've heard these complaints from other projects, too.
Now, if you could use your position there to help break this logjam, that would be great. However, given what I've heard from other Apple employees about their previous encounters with regards to this situation and their own inability to get support from the MacOS X Server development/support team, I doubt that is likely to be successful.
Unfortunately, this puts you in an even worse position.
-- Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
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