-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Okay, first of all let's all take a deep breath. This can be worked out.
Let me state up front that my general preference is always to allow the widest possible access to the Mailman and Python lists, and in general to all open source content. I think it only helps our users - -- and yes, ourselves -- if we actively strive to tear down barriers to participation rather than build them. Sometimes things conspire against us, like abuse by spammers of completely open lists, or the impolite behavior of some participants. We have an obligation to balance our defenses against those abuses with our overriding mission to open things up as much as possible. Sorry to rant, and I don't want to get too political, but this really is a wider issue in our society. I strongly believe that more openness is good. Some can argue that there is a place for secrecy, but if so then it must be deliberately narrowed as much as possible. I can see no argument for closing avenues of information in an open source project. For me, this is deeply personal because if it weren't for the kindness and support of my users, I wouldn't be doing this. It ain't for the money, I can tell you that. :) In return, we give our users software when we can, but more importantly (IMO), we give them a community to be part of, to help each other out when we're stressed or unavailable. Without that, our support line gets overwhelmed with requests, and that support line for Mailman often devolves to my personal email address. That is not a good thing. :) So. I don't know Lars personally though I've had a few email interactions with him. I don't know how Gmane is managed or administered. I only know that I use it occasionally and I've always found it a useful and reliable service. When I need it, I'm really glad it's there. If they have procedures for adding mailing lists, those procedures should be followed. If they weren't in the Mailman and Python list cases, then they should be. I have absolutely no reason to believe there's anything malicious or nefarious going on. To the extent that there are problems in their procedures, I think it's more likely that newbies screwed up or that overworked volunteers simply forgot or took shortcuts. Who among us can't sympathize with that? If I was aware of such problems in the past, I honestly don't remember -- I'll place the blame squarely on my overloaded brain, and age. :) Taking a fresh look at this, I say let's do what we can to get the lists on Gmane, including any back archives. Jason, perhaps you can mediate here, since you seem to know both the Gmane and Mailman/Python organizations. If the Gmane administrators make a formal request to the list owners of the Mailman and Python mailing lists that are missing, then my vote is to accept the offer, provide them with whatever they need, and get the newsgroups going. - -Barry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBRQ1rmHEjvBPtnXfVAQI8jAQApToa0A+Kf+X4JpazSN0Crt8ZHp1Wi4Xo yJMxVZjEW+1I/gmGX+jqnVYjj0zN/S3nxxboZsM1Igc/Mb68r6ciGuvNT8xxRHvd xj1SI+c8gH0Lnab0N3UvgkYFqATSYAKWrBW5CBzS2WDFRAfA8ZmcqF+2o+n6KkBO HaIMLTgHORQ= =CNpU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
