On 8/26/2020 8:17 PM, Brian Carpenter wrote:
I am sure Mark has moved on from Mailman 2, at least he has said that on
numerous occasions. It is you folks that won't let him. You want to keep
using MM2 and you want the developers to keep supporting it. That pressure
can/does hinder the work on Mailman 3.
Just who is this "you folks" that you're talking about??? Have _I_ ever
demanded that Mark fix something? (Jim? Dmitri? others in this
conversation?) I don't think so. Heck, I'm sure I've answered, or at least
responded to, many more questions on this list than I've asked.
I offer shared and dedicated environments for Mailman 3 and none
of my clients have to worry about the complexities of Mailman 3 at all.
Again, you've missed the point- it's not about "clients", it's about us
individually. Us who operate lists on our own systems for our own use.
I didn't like the way Carl quoted an old piece of information and when he
was corrected, proceeded to dig in his heels. I didn't like a lurker who
never posted to any Mailman list before, suddenly come out of the
woodwork to mock me on the use of "long life"
Oh, boy...
a) I quoted a piece of info _with_reference_ and you quoted the next
paragraph from the _same_page_! It's "digging in my heels" when called on
that? If one piece is correct, it's reasonable to assume the other is too.
If they're not, don't point the finger at me (and go change the doc).
b) I really hope you're not calling me a "lurker".....
By the way there is always a choice. I have been offering Mailman 3 shared
list hosting for almost 2 years now. It's that few extra dollars a month
that is a budget breakers for cheap host users. Oh well.
And I run MM2 for no cost for myself and friends. I have other friends who
run it at no cost for -their- groups, none of them are chomping to run MM3
because they don't see much point. It's not about $$$$. (You do realize that
some folks still use CRT monitors and are quite happy with them. Should
those be replaced? Why?)
I know now that none of you have any intention of using or supporting
Mailman 3. My pro MM3 comments have been mocked, ignored, and discarded. Ok.
No, your "my way or the highway" comments have been mocked and discarded. If
MM3 offered me a benefit, I might consider using it if the cost (which
includes my own time) made it worth while.
Fine. I think none of you has shown any respect or appreciation in the work
that has been done to propel the Mailman project into the modern web
development world.
Not correct.
That shows that all you really care about is your wallets
No, wallets aren't included ($$ cost is not a factor).
and how much you may have to work to move your lists to a Mailman 3
environment.
Yes, why should we do a bunch of work for no appreciable benefit? I haven't
seen a relevant answer.
This isn't about Mailman at all. It's about how can have a
mailing list and stay using a cheap budget host.
??? My "cheap host" is a machine in the back room. Other MM2 operators I
know buy raw iron or colo space to run their lists. Why are you hung up on
hosted MM?
For Jim? Well I don't really care why he doesn't use Mailman 3. I think
his claims about wanting to support Mailman is a joke. If he really
wanted to support the Mailman project, then he would throw his weight
behind Mailman 3.
So... you've just said that "my way or the highway" again.
I really don't understand this almost visceral disdain for anyone wanting to
run some older software _that_works_for_them_. Or disdain for someone who
offers to maintain that older software. Heck, that's part of the point of
open-source software, when one person steps back another can step forward.
Jim has offered to do that; while my python isn't good*, I might help him
because I also use the software.
*(I don't see much need for it)
Next, I suppose someone is going to tell me I have to stop using mp2 files
because mp4 is so much better or something like that.
Really, just give it a rest.
z!
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