Hi Orange is an ISP and as far as I can remember, they do not provide free mail address.
When people are shutting down their internet account, Orange is asking them to take necessary measures to also shut down the mailbox. Mailbox will stay accessible for 6 months and then shut down Source : https://assistance.orange.fr/assistance-commerciale/la-gestion-de-vos-offres-et-options/resilier-votre-offre/les-conseils-avant-de-resilier-votre-messagerie-mail-orange_71178-72015 Could it be that some people just don't take necessary action regarding their mailbox when moving from an ISP to another ? Best regards Florent - - - - - FLORENT DESTORS DELIVERABILITY CONSULTANT direct +33 1 44 68 10 78 mobile +33 6 13 20 61 16 email florent.dest...@selligent.com SELLIGENT MARKETING CLOUD CONSUMER-FIRST MARKETING www.selligent.com The information contained in this communication is confidential and is only for the use of the intended addressee. If you have received this communication in error, please destroy it immediately, including all attachments. -----Message d'origine----- De : mailop [mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org] De la part de mailop-requ...@mailop.org Envoyé : jeudi 5 juillet 2018 15:04 À : mailop@mailop.org Objet : mailop Digest, Vol 129, Issue 3 Send mailop mailing list submissions to mailop@mailop.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to mailop-requ...@mailop.org You can reach the person managing the list at mailop-ow...@mailop.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of mailop digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces (Benoit Panizzon) 2. Re: Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces (Philip Paeps) 3. Re: Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces (Suresh Ramasubramanian) 4. Re: Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces (Mathieu Bourdin) 5. Re: Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces (David Hofstee) 6. Re: Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces (Emre Üst |euro.message|) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2018 13:23:29 +0200 From: Benoit Panizzon <benoit.paniz...@imp.ch> To: "Emre Üst |euro.message|" <emre....@euromsg.com> Cc: mailop@mailop.org Subject: Re: [mailop] Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces Message-ID: <20180705132329.72e5f...@go.imp.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi Erme I've seen similar problems with ISP using, as I recall, something sounding like 'xmailserver' as SMTP Server. That Server has a very serious bug, instead of rejecting invalid recipients during the 'rcpt to' handshake, it does this after 'data' has been initiated by issuing a human readable message telling what recipient was invalid. This of course breaks all mailing lists or newsletter tools which send emails to as many recipients as possible to lower resource consumption. If one destination address becomes invalid, this leads to mass unsubscription of valid email addresses on tools like mailman. So Maybe France Telecom switched to such a mailserver? Mit freundlichen Grüssen -Benoît Panizzon- -- I m p r o W a r e A G - Leiter Commerce Kunden ______________________________________________________ Zurlindenstrasse 29 Tel +41 61 826 93 00 CH-4133 Pratteln Fax +41 61 826 93 01 Schweiz Web http://www.imp.ch ______________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2018 13:34:17 +0200 From: "Philip Paeps" <phi...@trouble.is> To: mailop@mailop.org Subject: Re: [mailop] Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces Message-ID: <dc80b2f0-4145-44ff-9363-605d63981...@trouble.is> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed On 2018-07-05 12:47:57 (+0200), Emre Üst |euro.message| wrote: > Is there anything wrong on Orange.fr and wanadoo.fr domains lately ? > Our client's recipients went to Hard Bounces. I actually don't > understand why suddenly their email become invalid, people that are > actually quite active. Opening and clicking on the NL. > > Could it be closing themselves ? The errors you quote translate to "user unknown". Perhaps the recipients closed their accounts? Or stopped paying their bills and their mailboxes were shut down? Continuing to send mail to mailboxes that bounce hard is unlikely to do your reputation much good! Philip -- Philip Paeps Senior Reality Engineer Ministry of Information ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2018 17:21:18 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian <ops.li...@gmail.com> To: Benoit Panizzon <benoit.paniz...@imp.ch>, "Emre Üst |euro.message|" <emre....@euromsg.com> Cc: mailop@mailop.org Subject: Re: [mailop] Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces Message-ID: <f7357250-af7b-456e-8b62-60fa0b7c8...@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" For a 1990s throwback, here is the website for xmailserver http://www.xmailserver.org/ On 05/07/18, 4:56 PM, "mailop on behalf of Benoit Panizzon" <mailop-boun...@mailop.org on behalf of benoit.paniz...@imp.ch> wrote: Hi Erme I've seen similar problems with ISP using, as I recall, something sounding like 'xmailserver' as SMTP Server. That Server has a very serious bug, instead of rejecting invalid recipients during the 'rcpt to' handshake, it does this after 'data' has been initiated by issuing a human readable message telling what recipient was invalid. This of course breaks all mailing lists or newsletter tools which send emails to as many recipients as possible to lower resource consumption. If one destination address becomes invalid, this leads to mass unsubscription of valid email addresses on tools like mailman. So Maybe France Telecom switched to such a mailserver? Mit freundlichen Grüssen -Benoît Panizzon- -- I m p r o W a r e A G - Leiter Commerce Kunden ______________________________________________________ Zurlindenstrasse 29 Tel +41 61 826 93 00 CH-4133 Pratteln Fax +41 61 826 93 01 Schweiz Web http://www.imp.ch ______________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2018 12:30:36 +0000 From: Mathieu Bourdin <mbour...@np6.com> To: "mailop@mailop.org" <mailop@mailop.org> Subject: Re: [mailop] Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces Message-ID: <d700d2d285d941a7a4a667f0e2296...@np6.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" HI, Just to complete Philip's translation, the full bounce message says in french "invalid address for at least one of the recipients". Being a french ESP with 95% of our traffic to French ISPs, Orange foremost among them, we've never seen "false positives" regarding hard bounces with this ISP. I'm not sure they are using the xmailserver system, or at least we've never seen similar issues on our end, we send to 15 (I think, trying to remember the rates) recipients per connexion, and have not seen cases where the whole 15 of them would come bac as hard bounces because of just 1. If you want to make sure you could try to reach out to their postmaster team (if you haven't already), they do read requests and are usually very efficient in answering ESPs questions (as long as the questions are precise and well documented). Best of luck to you. Mathieu Bourdin. -----Message d'origine----- De : mailop [mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org] De la part de Philip Paeps Envoyé : jeudi 5 juillet 2018 13:34 À : mailop@mailop.org Objet : Re: [mailop] Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces On 2018-07-05 12:47:57 (+0200), Emre Üst |euro.message| wrote: > Is there anything wrong on Orange.fr and wanadoo.fr domains lately ? > Our client's recipients went to Hard Bounces. I actually don't > understand why suddenly their email become invalid, people that are > actually quite active. Opening and clicking on the NL. > > Could it be closing themselves ? The errors you quote translate to "user unknown". Perhaps the recipients closed their accounts? Or stopped paying their bills and their mailboxes were shut down? Continuing to send mail to mailboxes that bounce hard is unlikely to do your reputation much good! Philip -- Philip Paeps Senior Reality Engineer Ministry of Information _______________________________________________ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2018 14:52:45 +0200 From: David Hofstee <opentext.dhofs...@gmail.com> To: Suresh Ramasubramanian <ops.li...@gmail.com> Cc: Emre Üst |euro.message| <emre....@euromsg.com>, mailop <mailop@mailop.org>, Benoit Panizzon <benoit.paniz...@imp.ch> Subject: Re: [mailop] Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces Message-ID: <cakxmaxwr4vzkhkiibu1ns3onvlub5e-kzhusq4wex6bg0zf...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi Emre, My 5xx bounce rate is around 0.2% for these domains. The domains have not gone inactive. Some spam filters reply with such 5xx errors to fend off spam. I haven't seen that @orange yet (but a large Belgium provider does it infrequently). @Philip (and Mathieu): The point that Emre is making is: - You send to e.g. a 1000 recipients one week. These recipients download images and click on links (e.g. 40% open rate and 5% click rate). Conclusion: Recipients are real and active. - The next week *all* these recipients suddenly bounce and are deactivated on his lists due to a "550 5.1.1 Adresse d au moins un destinataire invalide. Invalid recipient. OFR_416 [416]"... Across all customers. That is not how normal recipients, people, stop using their email accounts. Not at such rates. Some other process is going on. One would like to find out what happened. He is asking himself if the domain has gone out of business (which is not the case). Yours, David On 5 July 2018 at 13:51, Suresh Ramasubramanian <ops.li...@gmail.com> wrote: > For a 1990s throwback, here is the website for xmailserver > > http://www.xmailserver.org/ > > On 05/07/18, 4:56 PM, "mailop on behalf of Benoit Panizzon" < > mailop-boun...@mailop.org on behalf of benoit.paniz...@imp.ch> wrote: > > Hi Erme > > I've seen similar problems with ISP using, as I recall, something > sounding like 'xmailserver' as SMTP Server. > > That Server has a very serious bug, instead of rejecting invalid > recipients during the 'rcpt to' handshake, it does this after 'data' > has been initiated by issuing a human readable message telling what > recipient was invalid. > > This of course breaks all mailing lists or newsletter tools which send > emails to as many recipients as possible to lower resource consumption. > > If one destination address becomes invalid, this leads to mass > unsubscription of valid email addresses on tools like mailman. > > So Maybe France Telecom switched to such a mailserver? > > Mit freundlichen Grüssen > > -Benoît Panizzon- > -- > I m p r o W a r e A G - Leiter Commerce Kunden > ______________________________________________________ > > Zurlindenstrasse 29 Tel +41 61 826 93 00 > CH-4133 Pratteln Fax +41 61 826 93 01 > Schweiz Web http://www.imp.ch > ______________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > mailop mailing list > mailop@mailop.org > https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop > > > > > _______________________________________________ > mailop mailing list > mailop@mailop.org > https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop > -- -- My opinion is mine. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/mailop/attachments/20180705/19b6bd3d/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2018 16:03:30 +0300 From: Emre Üst |euro.message| <emre....@euromsg.com> To: David Hofstee <opentext.dhofs...@gmail.com> Cc: mailop <mailop@mailop.org>, Suresh Ramasubramanian <ops.li...@gmail.com>, Benoit Panizzon <benoit.paniz...@imp.ch> Subject: Re: [mailop] Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces Message-ID: <cakouqxxaxniu2tz3ktzhjsvfzda38xwnldtmwphzrcxyriz...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Thank you David , Yes that is what i am talking about . that is the "strange" part ,how so many people close the email every NL . On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 3:52 PM, David Hofstee <opentext.dhofs...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Emre, > > My 5xx bounce rate is around 0.2% for these domains. The domains have not > gone inactive. Some spam filters reply with such 5xx errors to fend off > spam. I haven't seen that @orange yet (but a large Belgium provider does it > infrequently). > > @Philip (and Mathieu): The point that Emre is making is: > - You send to e.g. a 1000 recipients one week. These recipients download > images and click on links (e.g. 40% open rate and 5% click rate). > Conclusion: Recipients are real and active. > - The next week *all* these recipients suddenly bounce and are > deactivated on his lists due to a "550 5.1.1 Adresse d au moins un > destinataire invalide. Invalid recipient. OFR_416 [416]"... Across all > customers. > > That is not how normal recipients, people, stop using their email > accounts. Not at such rates. Some other process is going on. One would like > to find out what happened. He is asking himself if the domain has gone out > of business (which is not the case). > > Yours, > > > David > > On 5 July 2018 at 13:51, Suresh Ramasubramanian <ops.li...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> For a 1990s throwback, here is the website for xmailserver >> >> http://www.xmailserver.org/ >> >> On 05/07/18, 4:56 PM, "mailop on behalf of Benoit Panizzon" < >> mailop-boun...@mailop.org on behalf of benoit.paniz...@imp.ch> wrote: >> >> Hi Erme >> >> I've seen similar problems with ISP using, as I recall, something >> sounding like 'xmailserver' as SMTP Server. >> >> That Server has a very serious bug, instead of rejecting invalid >> recipients during the 'rcpt to' handshake, it does this after 'data' >> has been initiated by issuing a human readable message telling what >> recipient was invalid. >> >> This of course breaks all mailing lists or newsletter tools which send >> emails to as many recipients as possible to lower resource >> consumption. >> >> If one destination address becomes invalid, this leads to mass >> unsubscription of valid email addresses on tools like mailman. >> >> So Maybe France Telecom switched to such a mailserver? >> >> Mit freundlichen Grüssen >> >> -Benoît Panizzon- >> -- >> I m p r o W a r e A G - Leiter Commerce Kunden >> ______________________________________________________ >> >> Zurlindenstrasse 29 >> <https://maps.google.com/?q=Zurlindenstrasse+29&entry=gmail&source=g> >> Tel +41 61 826 93 00 >> CH-4133 Pratteln Fax +41 61 826 93 01 >> Schweiz Web http://www.imp.ch >> ______________________________________________________ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> mailop mailing list >> mailop@mailop.org >> https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> mailop mailing list >> mailop@mailop.org >> https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop >> > > > > -- > -- > My opinion is mine. > -- *EMRE ÜST* Technical Support Team Leader *t.* +902123430739 *f.* +902123430742 *email: *emre....@euromsg.com <%23> *skype:* *web:* euromsg.com <http://www.euromsg.com/?utm_source=email-signature&utm_medium=email> Yeşilce Mh. 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