As one who saw the value of SDLU both as a venting place and a place for serious discussion, I'm sad about its demise, but I somewhat understand the motivation.
As far as I understand the mailop policy, venting has no place here, and I do agree that it's not very productive, so thanks, Graeme, for getting discussions on track when they are on the verge of derailing. That said, I would very much like rational discussion of spam and our options of keeping it out of our users inboxes. Finger pointing is sometimes necessary as the organizations involved are at least partially part of the problem, but it shouldn't dominate the threads. Is this something that can be done under the umbrella of this mailing list, or will spam related discussion be considered off-topic? In that case, we might need a successor to the SDLU mailing list, and people who are willing to manage it - my spare time and my willingness to cope with all kinds of bulls*** is certainly too limited. Cheers, Hans-Martin Am 27. Februar 2026 18:41:28 schrieb Rob McEwen via mailop <[email protected]>: > I was one of the admins for the SDLU mailing list (one of about 5 or so) - > and I was the ONLY one arguing to keep it alive. But then nobody else spoke > up - or they were just like "whatever, OK" - and the main admin just killed > it without further discussion. I guess me being the only one to argue for it > to not die - wasn't enough to save it. > > > The main admin has about 5 arguments for killing it (his words) > 1) Lack of use > 2) EOL of Mailman2-python2 > 3) Bugs/issues with Mailman2-python3 > 4) Insanity about using Mailman3 for 1 list (resource requirements, > constant bugs) > 5) Mailop seems to be the all-in-one place these days > > Regarding "lack of use" - I think a huge part of this is that email hosting > and spam filtering as become far more difficult and less profitable than it > used to be - and sadly - a huge reason for this is all the damage that the > both the two largest providers and many in the ESP industry have done to > email. From a technical point lines between legit email and spam - are > blurrier than ever. For example, just the amount of spam a DNSBL is able to > block - is significantly less than it used to be - since often - spam is sent > using only the service provider's domain and IPs (even now in the Mail Header > From - which is ridiculous) - and then many of the links are ESP tracking > links. And then when senders do use their own domains - so many of these ESPs > encourage senders to use newly registered throwaway domains - which blurs the > lines between legit emails and spams - and these are often their allegedly > legit "cold sales call" emails (rolling eyes) - which they now incorrectly > claim is not spam. (That claim is suddenly widespread!) > > Meanwhile, many IT guys and IT manages services companies - think that the > way business email is done - is either to use Google Workspaces or Microsoft > 365 - I can't help but wonder if some of them don't even know that business > email is possible on another platforms? > > So this has driven many away - especially from the spam filtering side of the > industry. And even this week - my email server was impacted by this Microsoft > freemail issue - One of my customers is a surgery center and their > notifications to their customers about upcoming surgeries were getting > blocked! And that situation reminded me of the fact that I ALWAYS get the > blame from my customers for these situations - no matter who is at fault. If > one of the large providers blocks my customers' legit emails - it's my fault. > But if the tables are turned, it's still be my fault. Either way - it's my > fault. The end users always think that it must be the other systems' fault > because it doesn't seem believable to them - that Microsoft or Google would > make ANY mistakes. > > ALSO - I don't have time to find this right now - regarding the main SDLU > admins claim that "Mailop seems to be the all-in-one place these days" - I > recall not many years ago - email discussions here regarding spam filtering - > being shut down due to being allegedly off-topic. And these are threads that > weren't that particular long. (and I'm NOT talking about anything related to > my business!). So it always felt like anti-spam as a subtopic - was sort of > considered slight off-topic and only welcomed if the discussion was brief and > infrequent. So that was another arg I had for keeping the SDLU operational. > But maybe that's changed? With the loss of SDLU, hopefully anti-spam topics > will become more welcome at mailop, if that hasn't already happened? (not > saying that they aren't - I just haven't seen any very long or frequent > specifically anti-spam discussions here in the past year or two - but I that > exactly because people here were "trained" to not do them?) > > Rob McEwen > > ------ Original Message ------ > From "Marco Moock via mailop" <[email protected]> > To [email protected] > Date 2/27/2026 11:58:13 AM > Subject Re: [mailop] [ADMIN] Influx of subscribers > >> Am 27.02.2026 um 10:26:07 Uhr schrieb Al Iverson via mailop: >> >>> The SDLU mailing list just shut down. I wonder if that possibly >>> explains it. >> >> Sadly, many mailing lists are being discontinued. Where did the people >> go? >> >> -- >> Gruß >> Marco >> >> Send unsolicited bulk mail to [email protected] > _______________________________________________ > mailop mailing list > [email protected] > https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
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