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Dear John, Peter:
About Vespucci being at 52 degrees South...be
careful...there is more than the Magellan Strait
there...in fact in some other Vespucci reports
at high Sea in the South Atlantic, South Georgia
may be what he and his crew and the fleet lead
by Goncalo (cedilla c) Coelho mentioned to have
sighted...
I passed South Georgia once on my way to
Antarctida - and it is indeed a hard place to
land at.
Anyway had Vespucci indeed been at the SW
passage/Magellan Strait - and he would go
totally "wacko" happy for all his life for such
finding...
Instead no - he returned to Spain after a second
travel for Portugal (or better King Dom Manuel
"fired" him)...where he died around 1512 still
stuck as Major Pilot of Spain, looking for some
sort of Veragua Strait across nowadays
Mexico/Yucatan to the "Indies"...
A man of the seas who finds indeed such a
"graal" of sea routes as the SW passage, does
not go back to die "slowly and dusty" in search
for something that only got Spain stuck for
wayyyy too long...when the Portuguese were
already in 1511 sailing in the Arafura Sea
(Pacific Ocean) with Antonio de Abreu and F.
Serrao.
No, nope - Vespucci never saw the Magellan
Strait. If anything was South Georgia.
You are losing your time if keep thinking so.
Delenda Cartago,
Paulo Afonso
2010/3/16 <<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]>
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Today's Topics:
1. Mr X and the 'Secret' Paper (John W. Hessler)
2. Map orientation and distance perception (Helen Glazer)
3. Re: [EXLIBRIS-L] Rare Maps virtual exhibition (Seville)
(Joel Kovarsky)
4. Olympian Perspective (<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected])
5. RE: Portrait of Jacques Nicolas-Bellin (<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected])
6. AW: [MapHist] Portrait of Jacques Nicolas-Bellin
(Wolfgang K?berer)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 08:18:30 -0400
From: "John W. Hessler" <<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]>
Subject: [MapHist] Mr X and the 'Secret' Paper
To: <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
Message-ID:
<<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Histers,
The paper that Peter refers to was written by me
in 2006 and was called, ⤦Setting Sail from St.
Die or How Far South Did Amerigo Go?⤠The paper
has not been published but it is not
â¤secretâ¤, as it has circulated widely among
Vespucci scholars for some time. I have not
published it due to the complexity of the model
it proposesâ¤Sand the fact that sometimes
mathematicians like me, model things without
necessarily thinking through exactly how to
connect the results with their historical
import. The model does say something radical
about Vespucci as Peter points out, whether it
is correct however, is another question, and one
that I have not answered in a way that I
consider satisfactory.
The paper contains a mathematical analysis of a
particular line from Vespucciâ¤s Letter to
Soderini where he says,
⤦The nights too were very longâ¤Son April 7th,
when the sun was near Aries, we found the night
fifteen hours longâ¤Sâ¤
I had thought that based on this information I
could tell Vespucciâ¤s location or at least his
latitude from what he says in this line. The
line comes at an important part in his narrative
where he was apparently sailing south and got
caught in a ⤦gale so terrible that all were
alarmed in no slight degree⤠.
I began by deriving the equations necessary to
tell the daylight hours for a particular
location as a function of historical time. The
problem of deriving a formula for daylight
duration at sea-level is one of modeling the
rotation and orbital revolution of the earth
with respect to the sun. This turned out to be
extremely complicated and required three things.
Predicting the revolution angle from the day of year.
Predicting the sunâ¤s declination angle, or the
angular distance at solar noon between the sun
and the equator, from the earthâ¤s orbit
revolution angle.
Predicting daylight from latitude, longitude and
the sunâ¤s declination angle.
This is further complicated by the fact that one
must take into account the refraction of light
from the atmosphere at sea that causes the
apparent length of day to appear to exceed the
actual times of sunrise and sunset to an
observer.
After deriving these equations, which turned out
to be complicated trigonometric functions of the
inverse tangent, I looked to see if other models
had been derived that solved this problem. I
found that William Fossythe and Edward Rykiel
had published a paper, ⤦A Model comparison for
length of day as a function of latitude and day
of the year⤠in 1995, in the journal Ecological
Modeling. Although equivalent in many ways to my
model, it contained a constant that allowed one
to change the definition of daylight to account
for perceived changes due to twilight and
refraction.
To make this story a bit shorter the refined
model and my final calculations, which are
slightly different from the draft that Peter
cites 9the article is out there in several
forms), predicts that Vespucci would have had to
have been between 52 and 54 degrees south in
order to make the above statement. Look at a map
and you will see the problemâ¤She is at the
Straits...
Was he trying to tell us something or is this
result simply an artifact of the model? This is
a question I have not been able to answer to my
satisfaction and hence the article remains
unpublished..
If anyone is interested in the model I can
either send you a copy or I will post it on my
website if there are too many requestsâ¤S
John W. Hessler
Fellow of the Royal Geographical Society
Senior Cartographic Librarian
Geography and Map Division
Library of Congress
Washington DC
202-707-7223
Website:
<http://www.warpinghistory.blogspot.com>http://www.warpinghistory.blogspot.com
What any picture, of whatever form, must have in common
with reality in order to depict it--correctly or incorrectly--
in any way at all, is logical form, i.e. the form of reality.
--Wittgenstein
Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus
<<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]> 3/14/2010 9:35 AM >>>
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'reply' you're replying to the whole list)
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 10:18:48 -0500
From: Helen Glazer <<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]>
Subject: [MapHist] Map orientation and distance perception
To: Discussion group for map history
<<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]>
Message-ID:
<<mailto:c7c3ba08.dee%[email protected]>c7c3ba08.dee%[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
An interesting little article is in the March/April 2010 Yale Alumni
Magazine about a study by Joseph P. Simmons which 3suggests that a lifetime
of looking at maps in which north points up has influenced the way many
think about distances and directions.2 Simmons was more interested in this
from a marketing perspective, e.g. people assume it will take longer to
travel north than south and therefore will be more likely to cash in a
coupon for a store south of them.
<http://www.yalealumnimagazine.com/issues/2010_03/findings_north031.html>http://www.yalealumnimagazine.com/issues/2010_03/findings_north031.html
--Helen
ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø
Helen Glazer, Creative Director
George Glazer Gallery
<http://www.georgeglazer.com>http://www.georgeglazer.com
Antique Globes, Maps & Prints
ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 14:26:56 -0400
From: Joel Kovarsky
<<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]>
Subject: [MapHist] Re: [EXLIBRIS-L] Rare Maps virtual exhibition
(Seville)
To: MapHist <<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]>
Message-ID:
<<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Forwarded from ExLibris-L.
Joel Kovarsky
On 3/15/2010 2:11 PM, EDUARDO PEÑALVER wrote:
On 3/15/2010 1:32 PM, EDUARDO PEÑALVER wrote:
From March 15 it is available on Internet a virtual exhibition on
historical cartography in the Library of the University of Seville.
Beside several articles there is a selection of maps and links to
digitalized books with maps, views and plans. The url is:
<http://expobus.us.es>http://expobus.us.es
Eduardo Peñalver.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 15:04:18 EDT
From: <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
Subject: [MapHist] Olympian Perspective
To: <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
Message-ID:
<<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear Histers:
I am the "prominent member" of the New York Map Society referred to in
Peter Dickson's email to the list dated March 14, 2010. I am not a scholar and
do not pretend to be one. I presume that my prominence was that in my
capacity as vice president of the NYMS, and due to the unavailability of our
president, I presided over the meeting where Mr. Dickson was guest speaker.
Mr. Dickson makes reference to a comment that I made about a "sensitive"
unpublished essay written by a "Mr. X." I note that this morning on
maphist, John W. Hessler responded to Mr.
Dickson's email and identified himself
as "Mr. X."
In December 2008, John Hessler was a guest speak at the NYMS. In the
question and answer period after his formal
presentation, a question was raised
about how far the Portuguese/Vespucci had sailed down the East Coast of
South America. Mr. Hessler indicated that he had prepared an article that was
unpublished that discussed the issue. As a curious layman, I asked Mr.
Hessler if I could see a copy of his unpublished document and he agreed. It
was emailed to me in the week following the meeting. Mr. Hessler did not
indicate that the article was "sensitive" or that I should keep it in
confidence. That is how I came into possession of a copy of the article. There
is nothing more sinister than what I have described. According to Mr.
Dickson, he also had a copy of the essay and I am aware that Mr. Hessler
discussed the article with Mr. Fernandez-Armesto
several times who cited it in his
biography of Vespucci. The article by Hessler was neither sensitive nor
confidential and was available for the asking even by someone who was a
layman. My comment at the November meeting was an aside to Mr. Dickson's
response a question, and no one, including Mr.
Dickson, questioned me about what
I had said.
The New York Map Society has been privileged to have both Dickson and
Hessler as guest speakers. In doing so, we are not promoting one view or
another.
Fredric Shauger, President
New York Map Society
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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 20:46:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
Subject: RE: [MapHist] Portrait of Jacques Nicolas-Bellin
To:
<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected],
"Discussion group for map history"
<<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]>
Message-ID:
<<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Terry,
Some sources you may wish to look at re information on Bellin. I do
recall reading somewhere that there were no known images of Bellin. I
can't remeber where, perhaps in one of the two books referenced below.
Conrad E. Heidenreich; The Fictitious Islands of Lake Superior - The Map
Collector - Vol 27, 1984 pp21-25
Conrad E. Heidenreich; Mapping the Great Lakes / The period of Imperial
Rivalries - Cartographica Vol 18/ Number 3 Autumn 1981
- (Also, Bellin wrote and interpretations on his maps and atlases. See
reference to "Remarques de M. Bellin" in note 112 to this essay.)
Derek Hayes; Historical Atlas of Canada
Raymond Litalien - Jean Francois Palomino, Denis Vaugeois; - Mapping a
Continent
Rick Laprairie
Toronto
This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to
the whole list)
o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o
+
I'm also extremely interested in Bellin.
The only serious work I've been able to find on him is the 1973 thesis by
Jean-Marc Garant (title page shown below). This thesis has 108
illustrations, all of them maps, and no image of Bellin (sorry).
If anyone has any more information on Bellin, please post here, or if
replying privately, please copy me. It would be much appreciated.
Regards,
Terry
_____
From:
<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
[mailto:<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]]
On
Behalf
Of Vicente Calibo de Jesus
Sent: March 14, 2010 23:44
To: <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
Subject: [MapHist] Portrait of Jacques Nicolas-Bellin
Would appreciate it if anyone can guide me to a source where there is a
portrait of Jacques Nicolas-Bellin, one of
the towering figures of the Age of Enlightenment, who
copied a map produced in the Philippines. This map became
the authority for a supposition of Carlo Amoretti (1800)
creating a myth that turned an isle in the Philippines with
no anchorage into the safe haven of Ferdinand Magellan,
Mazaua, that had an excellent port.
This supposed port is named Limasawa, a name that is a
pure invention. There is no account of Magellan's voyage, be it primary,
secondary, or whatever that refers to an
island with that name. The neologism was coined by a
Jesuit priest, Fr. Francisco Combes, who had not read a single eyewitness
account of Magellan's voyage. In a three-paragraph story of Magellan's
sojourn in Surigao Strait, Combes managed to make his Limasawa stand for
three separate islands in the true story, namely, Suluan Island, Homonhon,
and Gatighan.
A number of Western historians have fallen victim to this myth, the latest
being Laurence Bergreen who made this island that has no anchorage a naval
power in the areaB during the Age of Sail able to interdict ships that did
not pay tribute.
_______________________________________________
MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
the views of the author.
> List Information: <http://www.maphist.nl>http://www.maphist.nl
Maphist mailing list
<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
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------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 08:24:38 +0100
From: Wolfgang K?berer
<<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]>
Subject: AW: [MapHist] Portrait of Jacques Nicolas-Bellin
To: "'Discussion group for map history'"
<<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]>,
<<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]>
Message-ID:
<<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Looking into Olivier Chapuis' book on Beautemps-Beaupré "A la mer comme au
ciel: Beautemps-Beaupré & la naissance de l`hydrographie moderne
(1700-1850)" - a mine of information about French chartmaking - I saw that
he does not give a picture of Bellin - unlike most of the other French
hydrographers. That might be an indication that there really is none. But
Olivier Chapuis probably knows best.
Wolfgang Köberer
Dr. Wolfgang Köberer
Wolfsgangstr. 92
D-60322 Frankfurt am Main
Tel: + 49 69 95520851
Fax: + 49 69 558400
e-mail:
<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von:
<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
[mailto:<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]]
Im Auftrag
von <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 16. März 2010 01:47
An:
<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected];
Discussion group for map history
Betreff: RE: [MapHist] Portrait of Jacques Nicolas-Bellin
This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the
whole list)
o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o +
Terry,
Some sources you may wish to look at re information on Bellin. I do
recall reading somewhere that there were no known images of Bellin. I
can't remeber where, perhaps in one of the two books referenced below.
Conrad E. Heidenreich; The Fictitious Islands of Lake Superior - The Map
Collector - Vol 27, 1984 pp21-25
Conrad E. Heidenreich; Mapping the Great Lakes / The period of Imperial
Rivalries - Cartographica Vol 18/ Number 3 Autumn 1981
- (Also, Bellin wrote and interpretations on his maps and atlases. See
reference to "Remarques de M. Bellin" in note 112 to this essay.)
Derek Hayes; Historical Atlas of Canada
Raymond Litalien - Jean Francois Palomino, Denis Vaugeois; - Mapping a
Continent
Rick Laprairie
Toronto
This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to
the whole list)
o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o
+
I'm also extremely interested in Bellin.
The only serious work I've been able to find on him is the 1973 thesis by
Jean-Marc Garant (title page shown below). This thesis has 108
illustrations, all of them maps, and no image of Bellin (sorry).
If anyone has any more information on Bellin, please post here, or if
replying privately, please copy me. It would be much appreciated.
Regards,
Terry
_____
From:
<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
[mailto:<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]]
On
Behalf
Of Vicente Calibo de Jesus
Sent: March 14, 2010 23:44
To: <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
Subject: [MapHist] Portrait of Jacques Nicolas-Bellin
Would appreciate it if anyone can guide me to a source where there is a
portrait of Jacques Nicolas-Bellin, one of
the towering figures of the Age of Enlightenment, who
copied a map produced in the Philippines. This map became
the authority for a supposition of Carlo Amoretti (1800)
creating a myth that turned an isle in the Philippines with
no anchorage into the safe haven of Ferdinand Magellan,
Mazaua, that had an excellent port.
This supposed port is named Limasawa, a name that is a
> pure invention. There is no account of Magellan's voyage, be it primary,
secondary, or whatever that refers to an
island with that name. The neologism was coined by a
Jesuit priest, Fr. Francisco Combes, who had not read a single eyewitness
account of Magellan's voyage. In a three-paragraph story of Magellan's
sojourn in Surigao Strait, Combes managed to make his Limasawa stand for
three separate islands in the true story, namely, Suluan Island, Homonhon,
and Gatighan.
A number of Western historians have fallen victim to this myth, the latest
being Laurence Bergreen who made this island that has no anchorage a naval
power in the areaB during the Age of Sail able to interdict ships that did
not pay tribute.
_______________________________________________
MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
the views of the author.
List Information: <http://www.maphist.nl>http://www.maphist.nl
Maphist mailing list
<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
<http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist>http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist
_______________________________________________
MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
the views of the author.
List Information: <http://www.maphist.nl>http://www.maphist.nl
Maphist mailing list
<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
<http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist>http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist
------------------------------
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Maphist mailing list
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End of Maphist Digest, Vol 55, Issue 14
***************************************
_______________________________________________
MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography
hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht.
The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of
the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of
Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for
the views of the author.
List Information: http://www.maphist.nl
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