This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o +
Dear John, Peter: About Vespucci being at 52 degrees South...be careful...there is more than the Magellan Strait there...in fact in some other Vespucci reports at high Sea in the South Atlantic, South Georgia may be what he and his crew and the fleet lead by Goncalo (cedilla c) Coelho mentioned to have sighted... I passed South Georgia once on my way to Antarctida - and it is indeed a hard place to land at. Anyway had Vespucci indeed been at the SW passage/Magellan Strait - and he would go totally "wacko" happy for all his life for such finding... Instead no - he returned to Spain after a second travel for Portugal (or better King Dom Manuel "fired" him)...where he died around 1512 still stuck as Major Pilot of Spain, looking for some sort of Veragua Strait across nowadays Mexico/Yucatan to the "Indies"... A man of the seas who finds indeed such a "graal" of sea routes as the SW passage, does not go back to die "slowly and dusty" in search for something that only got Spain stuck for wayyyy too long...when the Portuguese were already in 1511 sailing in the Arafura Sea (Pacific Ocean) with Antonio de Abreu and F. Serrao. No, nope - Vespucci never saw the Magellan Strait. If anything was South Georgia. You are losing your time if keep thinking so. Delenda Cartago, Paulo Afonso 2010/3/16 <[email protected]> > Send Maphist mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Maphist digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Mr X and the 'Secret' Paper (John W. Hessler) > 2. Map orientation and distance perception (Helen Glazer) > 3. Re: [EXLIBRIS-L] Rare Maps virtual exhibition (Seville) > (Joel Kovarsky) > 4. Olympian Perspective ([email protected]) > 5. RE: Portrait of Jacques Nicolas-Bellin ([email protected]) > 6. AW: [MapHist] Portrait of Jacques Nicolas-Bellin > (Wolfgang K?berer) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 08:18:30 -0400 > From: "John W. Hessler" <[email protected]> > Subject: [MapHist] Mr X and the 'Secret' Paper > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Histers, > > The paper that Peter refers to was written by me in 2006 and was > called, “Setting Sail from St. Die or How Far South Did Amerigo Go?†The > paper has not been published but it is not ‘secret’, as it has > circulated widely among Vespucci scholars for some time. I have not > published it due to the complexity of the model it proposes…and the fact > that sometimes mathematicians like me, model things without necessarily > thinking through exactly how to connect the results with their historical > import. The model does say something radical about Vespucci as Peter points > out, whether it is correct however, is another question, and one that I have > not answered in a way that I consider satisfactory. > > The paper contains a mathematical analysis of a particular line from > Vespucci’s Letter to Soderini where he says, > > “The nights too were very long…on April 7th, when the sun was near > Aries, we found the night fifteen hours long…†> > I had thought that based on this information I could tell Vespucci’s > location or at least his latitude from what he says in this line. The line > comes at an important part in his narrative where he was apparently sailing > south and got caught in a “gale so terrible that all were alarmed in no > slight degree†. > > I began by deriving the equations necessary to tell the daylight hours for > a particular location as a function of historical time. The problem of > deriving a formula for daylight duration at sea-level is one of modeling the > rotation and orbital revolution of the earth with respect to the sun. This > turned out to be extremely complicated and required three things. > > Predicting the revolution angle from the day of year. > Predicting the sun’s declination angle, or the angular distance at solar > noon between the sun and the equator, from the earth’s orbit revolution > angle. > Predicting daylight from latitude, longitude and the sun’s declination > angle. > > This is further complicated by the fact that one must take into account the > refraction of light from the atmosphere at sea that causes the apparent > length of day to appear to exceed the actual times of sunrise and sunset to > an observer. > > After deriving these equations, which turned out to be complicated > trigonometric functions of the inverse tangent, I looked to see if other > models had been derived that solved this problem. I found that William > Fossythe and Edward Rykiel had published a paper, “A Model comparison for > length of day as a function of latitude and day of the year†in 1995, in > the journal Ecological Modeling. Although equivalent in many ways to my > model, it contained a constant that allowed one to change the definition of > daylight to account for perceived changes due to twilight and refraction. > > To make this story a bit shorter the refined model and my final > calculations, which are slightly different from the draft that Peter cites > 9the article is out there in several forms), predicts that Vespucci would > have had to have been between 52 and 54 degrees south in order to make the > above statement. Look at a map and you will see the problem…he is at the > Straits... > > Was he trying to tell us something or is this result simply an artifact of > the model? This is a question I have not been able to answer to my > satisfaction and hence the article remains unpublished.. > > If anyone is interested in the model I can either send you a copy or I will > post it on my website if there are too many requests… > > > > > John W. Hessler > Fellow of the Royal Geographical Society > > Senior Cartographic Librarian > Geography and Map Division > Library of Congress > Washington DC > 202-707-7223 > > Website: > http://www.warpinghistory.blogspot.com > > What any picture, of whatever form, must have in common > with reality in order to depict it--correctly or incorrectly-- > in any way at all, is logical form, i.e. the form of reality. > > --Wittgenstein > Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus > > > >>> <[email protected]> 3/14/2010 9:35 AM >>> > > This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the > whole list) > o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + > -------------- next part -------------- > Skipped content of type multipart/related > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 10:18:48 -0500 > From: Helen Glazer <[email protected]> > Subject: [MapHist] Map orientation and distance perception > To: Discussion group for map history <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > <c7c3ba08.dee%[email protected]<c7c3ba08.dee%[email protected]> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > An interesting little article is in the March/April 2010 Yale Alumni > Magazine about a study by Joseph P. Simmons which ³suggests that a lifetime > of looking at maps in which north points up has influenced the way many > think about distances and directions.² Simmons was more interested in this > from a marketing perspective, e.g. people assume it will take longer to > travel north than south and therefore will be more likely to cash in a > coupon for a store south of them. > > http://www.yalealumnimagazine.com/issues/2010_03/findings_north031.html > > --Helen > > ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø > Helen Glazer, Creative Director > George Glazer Gallery > http://www.georgeglazer.com > Antique Globes, Maps & Prints > ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø ø > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/pipermail/maphist/attachments/20100315/1306f71d/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 14:26:56 -0400 > From: Joel Kovarsky <[email protected]> > Subject: [MapHist] Re: [EXLIBRIS-L] Rare Maps virtual exhibition > (Seville) > To: MapHist <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Forwarded from ExLibris-L. > > Joel Kovarsky > > On 3/15/2010 2:11 PM, EDUARDO PEÑALVER wrote: > > On 3/15/2010 1:32 PM, EDUARDO PEÑALVER wrote: > >> From March 15 it is available on Internet a virtual exhibition on > >> historical cartography in the Library of the University of Seville. > >> Beside several articles there is a selection of maps and links to > >> digitalized books with maps, views and plans. The url is: > >> http://expobus.us.es > >> > >> Eduardo Peñalver. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 15:04:18 EDT > From: [email protected] > Subject: [MapHist] Olympian Perspective > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > Dear Histers: > I am the "prominent member" of the New York Map Society referred to in > Peter Dickson's email to the list dated March 14, 2010. I am not a scholar > and > do not pretend to be one. I presume that my prominence was that in my > capacity as vice president of the NYMS, and due to the unavailability of > our > president, I presided over the meeting where Mr. Dickson was guest > speaker. > Mr. Dickson makes reference to a comment that I made about a "sensitive" > unpublished essay written by a "Mr. X." I note that this morning on > maphist, John W. Hessler responded to Mr. Dickson's email and identified > himself > as "Mr. X." > In December 2008, John Hessler was a guest speak at the NYMS. In the > question and answer period after his formal presentation, a question was > raised > about how far the Portuguese/Vespucci had sailed down the East Coast of > South America. Mr. Hessler indicated that he had prepared an article that > was > unpublished that discussed the issue. As a curious layman, I asked Mr. > Hessler if I could see a copy of his unpublished document and he agreed. > It > was emailed to me in the week following the meeting. Mr. Hessler did not > indicate that the article was "sensitive" or that I should keep it in > confidence. That is how I came into possession of a copy of the article. > There > is nothing more sinister than what I have described. According to Mr. > Dickson, he also had a copy of the essay and I am aware that Mr. Hessler > discussed the article with Mr. Fernandez-Armesto several times who cited > it in his > biography of Vespucci. The article by Hessler was neither sensitive nor > confidential and was available for the asking even by someone who was a > layman. My comment at the November meeting was an aside to Mr. Dickson's > response a question, and no one, including Mr. Dickson, questioned me > about what > I had said. > The New York Map Society has been privileged to have both Dickson and > Hessler as guest speakers. In doing so, we are not promoting one view or > another. > Fredric Shauger, President > New York Map Society > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/pipermail/maphist/attachments/20100315/3ca518c4/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 20:46:46 -0400 (EDT) > From: [email protected] > Subject: RE: [MapHist] Portrait of Jacques Nicolas-Bellin > To: [email protected], "Discussion group for map history" > <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > > Terry, > > Some sources you may wish to look at re information on Bellin. I do > recall reading somewhere that there were no known images of Bellin. I > can't remeber where, perhaps in one of the two books referenced below. > > Conrad E. Heidenreich; The Fictitious Islands of Lake Superior - The Map > Collector - Vol 27, 1984 pp21-25 > > Conrad E. Heidenreich; Mapping the Great Lakes / The period of Imperial > Rivalries – Cartographica Vol 18/ Number 3 Autumn 1981 > - (Also, Bellin wrote and interpretations on his maps and atlases. See > reference to "Remarques de M. Bellin" in note 112 to this essay.) > > Derek Hayes; Historical Atlas of Canada > > Raymond Litalien – Jean Francois Palomino, Denis Vaugeois; – Mapping a > Continent > > Rick Laprairie > Toronto > > > This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to > > the whole list) > > o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o > > + > > > > I'm also extremely interested in Bellin. > > > > > > > > The only serious work I've been able to find on him is the 1973 thesis by > > Jean-Marc Garant (title page shown below). This thesis has 108 > > illustrations, all of them maps, and no image of Bellin (sorry). > > > > > > > > If anyone has any more information on Bellin, please post here, or if > > replying privately, please copy me. It would be much appreciated. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Terry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > > Behalf > > Of Vicente Calibo de Jesus > > Sent: March 14, 2010 23:44 > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [MapHist] Portrait of Jacques Nicolas-Bellin > > > > > > > > Would appreciate it if anyone can guide me to a source where there is a > > portrait of Jacques Nicolas-Bellin, one of > > the towering figures of the Age of Enlightenment, who > > copied a map produced in the Philippines. This map became > > the authority for a supposition of Carlo Amoretti (1800) > > creating a myth that turned an isle in the Philippines with > > no anchorage into the safe haven of Ferdinand Magellan, > > Mazaua, that had an excellent port. > > > > This supposed port is named Limasawa, a name that is a > > pure invention. There is no account of Magellan's voyage, be it primary, > > secondary, or whatever that refers to an > > island with that name. The neologism was coined by a > > Jesuit priest, Fr. Francisco Combes, who had not read a single eyewitness > > account of Magellan's voyage. In a three-paragraph story of Magellan's > > sojourn in Surigao Strait, Combes managed to make his Limasawa stand for > > three separate islands in the true story, namely, Suluan Island, > Homonhon, > > and Gatighan. > > > > A number of Western historians have fallen victim to this myth, the > latest > > being Laurence Bergreen who made this island that has no anchorage a > naval > > power in the areaB during the Age of Sail able to interdict ships that > did > > not pay tribute. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > > hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. > > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > > the views of the author. > > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl > > > > Maphist mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 08:24:38 +0100 > From: Wolfgang K?berer <[email protected]> > Subject: AW: [MapHist] Portrait of Jacques Nicolas-Bellin > To: "'Discussion group for map history'" <[email protected]>, > <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Looking into Olivier Chapuis' book on Beautemps-Beaupré "A la mer comme au > ciel: Beautemps-Beaupré & la naissance de l`hydrographie moderne > (1700-1850)" - a mine of information about French chartmaking - I saw that > he does not give a picture of Bellin - unlike most of the other French > hydrographers. That might be an indication that there really is none. But > Olivier Chapuis probably knows best. > > Wolfgang Köberer > > Dr. Wolfgang Köberer > Wolfsgangstr. 92 > D-60322 Frankfurt am Main > Tel: + 49 69 95520851 > Fax: + 49 69 558400 > e-mail: [email protected] > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Im > Auftrag > von [email protected] > Gesendet: Dienstag, 16. März 2010 01:47 > An: [email protected]; Discussion group for map history > Betreff: RE: [MapHist] Portrait of Jacques Nicolas-Bellin > > This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the > whole list) > o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + > > Terry, > > Some sources you may wish to look at re information on Bellin. I do > recall reading somewhere that there were no known images of Bellin. I > can't remeber where, perhaps in one of the two books referenced below. > > Conrad E. Heidenreich; The Fictitious Islands of Lake Superior - The Map > Collector - Vol 27, 1984 pp21-25 > > Conrad E. Heidenreich; Mapping the Great Lakes / The period of Imperial > Rivalries – Cartographica Vol 18/ Number 3 Autumn 1981 > - (Also, Bellin wrote and interpretations on his maps and atlases. See > reference to "Remarques de M. Bellin" in note 112 to this essay.) > > Derek Hayes; Historical Atlas of Canada > > Raymond Litalien – Jean Francois Palomino, Denis Vaugeois; – Mapping a > Continent > > Rick Laprairie > Toronto > > > This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to > > the whole list) > > o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o > > + > > > > I'm also extremely interested in Bellin. > > > > > > > > The only serious work I've been able to find on him is the 1973 thesis by > > Jean-Marc Garant (title page shown below). This thesis has 108 > > illustrations, all of them maps, and no image of Bellin (sorry). > > > > > > > > If anyone has any more information on Bellin, please post here, or if > > replying privately, please copy me. It would be much appreciated. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Terry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > > Behalf > > Of Vicente Calibo de Jesus > > Sent: March 14, 2010 23:44 > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [MapHist] Portrait of Jacques Nicolas-Bellin > > > > > > > > Would appreciate it if anyone can guide me to a source where there is a > > portrait of Jacques Nicolas-Bellin, one of > > the towering figures of the Age of Enlightenment, who > > copied a map produced in the Philippines. This map became > > the authority for a supposition of Carlo Amoretti (1800) > > creating a myth that turned an isle in the Philippines with > > no anchorage into the safe haven of Ferdinand Magellan, > > Mazaua, that had an excellent port. > > > > This supposed port is named Limasawa, a name that is a > > pure invention. There is no account of Magellan's voyage, be it primary, > > secondary, or whatever that refers to an > > island with that name. The neologism was coined by a > > Jesuit priest, Fr. Francisco Combes, who had not read a single eyewitness > > account of Magellan's voyage. In a three-paragraph story of Magellan's > > sojourn in Surigao Strait, Combes managed to make his Limasawa stand for > > three separate islands in the true story, namely, Suluan Island, > Homonhon, > > and Gatighan. > > > > A number of Western historians have fallen victim to this myth, the > latest > > being Laurence Bergreen who made this island that has no anchorage a > naval > > power in the areaB during the Age of Sail able to interdict ships that > did > > not pay tribute. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > > hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. > > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > > the views of the author. > > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl > > > > Maphist mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist > > _______________________________________________ > MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography > hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of > the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of > Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for > the views of the author. > List Information: http://www.maphist.nl > > Maphist mailing list > [email protected] > http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Maphist mailing list > [email protected] > http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist > > End of Maphist Digest, Vol 55, Issue 14 > *************************************** >
_______________________________________________ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list [email protected] http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist
