I have used visio and found it a bit clumsy - typical microsoft - move one object and 
it assumes that you want all the relationship lines moved as well.  The 
templates looked as though they were designed by a 17 year old geek as well.  Still 
its database entity extraction tools were good.

I used a product called SQL navigator on an oracle project once and were quite happy 
with it.  It had a long free trial period.  There is a review of these products at 
http://www.orafaq.com/tools/table.htm, but am not sure whether these products also 
work with other databases.

The tools available will depend a bit on the database that you are running, as many of 
them allow direct alteration of the relationships from the graphical model, and 
also recompilation of procedures after editing.

8/1/2002 3:21:17 PM, "Juan S. Barros J." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
>I am theorizing, some ones might say dreaming, others designing, an =
>application for servicing the different need of a medium, typical, =
>rural, chilean municipality (local government).
>
>The entity-relation-variables model is getting a bit huge and =
>unmanageable. Around 200 - 500 - 12000 of each in the same order.
>
>I am wondering if there is any tool, propably graphycal, that will allow =
>me to draw the model. Much in the chemical/biochemical 3d model, I am on =
>the idea of a black/white or for the cause any color three dimensional =
>empty space, where I can put bubbles (entities) and lines (relations) =
>connecting them, inside the bubbles live the variables and the relations =
>cross the bubble container touching the variable or fields. If I can =
>define by color/shape the entities-relations-variables caracteristics, =
>and latter have a print out with the entities/relations/variables =
>documenting the model much better.
>
>Any one of you know of a such a beauty? Is there any tool for helping =
>designing databases rather than plain paper and ink?
>
>TIA
>
>Juanse Barros
>Temuko-Chile
>www.matilde.cl
>
>
>
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Robert Crossley 
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