Hi Aniruddha, Thanx for a great rebuttal! I didn't know Dimitri is with Manifold.
Thankfully, Caliper does not have a corporate culture that puts down other GIS products. They're too busy making a great product. As many have attested to on this list before, if you want to get a lot of work done with an easy to learn GIS that has an amazing amount of functionality for the money Maptitude should be the first product you look at! Larry Manire 12 year Maptitude user and GISDK Programmer -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Map Boy Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 10:39 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Maptitude] Maptitude and DBMS Hi Rudy, To shed a bit more light on your post, it should be noted that Dimitri is the product manager for Manifold. His official title may represent a higher position in the company, but my point is, you are fighting a wothless battle, not on the basis of the each product's capibilities, but more so based on Dimitri's personality. Dimitri trolls numerous listserves promoting his own product, and does so in a manner that makes the hair raise up on your back. He is a true blowhard, who thinks Manifold is the greatest thing since sliced bread. He usually gets blasted on every listserve he posts on (I've even seen negative comments about him on his own Manifold listserve), but it never stops him. In fact, I'm surprised he didn't mention his favorite line: "Manifold has over 1,000, 000 lines of program code". In brief, as a high ranking officer of his company, he is pretty embarrassing, and is probably the leading reason I would never consider using Manifold. As such, I personally can't state what is better, Maptitude or Manifold. Manifold is cheaper by a slim margin. However, in my county, I know of two very seasoned GIS professionals who have at their disposal ESRI, Manifold, and Maptitude. They use ESRI because as a government agency, the investment was made, and they are stuck with it. Both individuals have indicated (unsolicted by me) that while Manifold had a lot of power for its price, it was difficult to learn to use, i.e., had a steep learning curve. The Manifold users loved Maptitude, thought it was the easiest GIS package to learn, and felt it was just as powerful as ESRI and Manifold. In fact, during their public presentations, they show all the capabilities of their system (which is based on ESRI), but end their presentation with a demonstartion and recomendation of Maptitude, and do not mention Manifold. Anyway, just thought I'd share this with you. Dimitri is out to promote and sell Manifold, and will criticize all other GIS programs in doing so. To debate him is futile. Thank goodness Caliper staff doesn't embarrass themselves with such shameless tactics. Aniruddha Banerjee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi all (and especially the Caliper software architects): I put in the following comments in a GIS blog (website: http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/12/21/fighting-manifold-or-fighting-th e-way-ive-learned-gis/ ). Feel free to comment on it since I find some rather inaccurate comments (from Dimitri) about Maptitude....(you are welcome to respond) Here's the partial text: # Rudy // Mar 31, 2007 at 4:26 pm I've used all kinds of GIS since the DOS days (15 years and counting) and I can assure you that by far the best GIS software is Maptitude from Caliper Corporation. It is a vector GIS software that can also read and handle raster imagery. It's native database management is vastly superior to any other GIS (can handle all the TIGER line files of the US in one shot; it can handle one billion!! records and one million fields unlike MS access that allows only 256 fields). It can read oracle and other DBMS without using programming. An upgrade to TransCAD (another product from Caliper) allows you to perform redistricting using integer programming and other graph theoretic methods (invert matrices and store matrices of 25 K in native format). I can go on and I am happy to debate on this issue. Oh BTY I have an advanced ArcIMS certificate from ESRI for which my previous employer paid 1000s. I use C++ and R to do programming but was never required to program for my GIS stuff. Now that's a great software. Isn't it? Rudy B., PhD Berkeley, CA # 82 Dimitri // Apr 1, 2007 at 9:25 am For all of its limitations I don't think anyone would describe Maptitude as other than as a competent and pleasant GIS. It is well-matched to its target market and has a good following. Despite its many limitations (no IMS, small number of importable formats, etc.), if you think it is the best GIS ever, well, you are entitled to your opinion. What makes for "best" in someone's eyes is not necessarily the most features or the most sophisticated capabilities but the right balance for that someone's particular needs. But this bit "It's native database management is vastly superior to any other GIS " is utterly silly, as Maptitude (for all of its other benefits) is rather well-known for having particularly weak DBMS capabilities. I grant you that Maptitude may be improving its products and so is getting better at DBMS, but if memory serves me right (as assisted by a quick review of the Caliper website), it seems that the following gross DBMS limitations to Maptitude still apply: To take the most obvious, Maptitude connects to DBMS using ODBC, a terribly obsolete way to go. GIS packages with better DBMS capability can connect using more modern technologies such as OLE DB or ADO .NET. Connecting to SQL Server using OLE DB is about 600 times faster, read/write, than using ODBC, so this is a very big deal. Although Maptitude is said to be able to read "oracle spatial tables" (a particularly weird way of phrasing the matter, as if there is a host of "gotcha's" waiting in the wings), there is no mention of any sophisticated ability to do read/write/edits with many simultaneous users as is normally desired with Oracle Spatial, nor of projection matching on the fly nor of any support for GeoRasters, nor of storing formatting and other key drawing characteristics. All those things are necessary if you are really working with Oracle Spatial as a fully capable client and not just as some "read-only" usage of Oracle as a one-way data source. I grant you it is cool that Maptitude can read Oracle spatial data at all, but to do so in what is apparently a highly limited way is not the way one wins standing as "vastly superior." For that matter, if you really are on top of your DBMS game you'll be able to read/write/edit not just Oracle spatial but a host of different geometry-in-DBMS data types and DBMS systems, including, for example OGC WKB and WKT, ESRI-style geometry and so on in other DBMS packages, such as SQL Server. Don't see any of that in Maptitude. There is no trace of spatial SQL within Maptitude, something you'd expect any GIS laying claim to serious chops in the DBMS world to offer. If you can't do spatial SQL you're just not in the DBMS game in GIS, not even at the beginner level let alone as the best. I'll skip over the hundreds of small, but useful, capabilities that a truly DBMS-capable GIS has and Maptitude does not (example: right click on a column and choose "change type" to instantly change type ) and conclude with a very telling "big" thing: zero support for 64-bit code and multicore processors. Modern DBMS is multi-threaded. If you can't run multiple threads to your DBMS connection you're stuck in the dark ages. To shift gears away from DBMS to programming, since your post indicated a certain excitement at not having to do programming to do GIS stuff: not since the dark ages has any modern, interactive GIS required you towrite code to do GIS stuff, so don't be too excited that this is the case with Maptitude. It's a bit like a country cousin coming to the city and acting astonished there is indoor plumbing. The indoor plumbing is indeed great, but one should not betray too much astonishment at encountering such a convenience, which is taken for granted in modern times. :-) I don't mean any of the above as a slam at Maptitude because I happen to like that software and admire it. I especially admire Maptitude because together with packages like Manifold it helps set the precedent that one can get truly useful and pleasant GIS for a fraction of the cost of legacy stuff like ESRI. People in mainstream software markets understand that, but every bit of re-education helps for those folks still stuck in legacy notions of price/performance. So we should all praise Maptitude for helping move GIS into modern notions of price/performance. But on the way to praising Maptitude there is no need for inaccuracy, and suggesting Maptitude is the best GIS there is at DBMS is very far from the truth, hence this correction. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. -->
