Hi Noah,

I think having all the people that have submitted a logo collaborate would be 
fantastic. Its not always easy working together but I think that would work 
much better than a ‘design competition’ and even better than the current 
process of doing nothing.

Cheers
Garren


> On 14 Mar 2015, at 2:38 PM, Noah Slater <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> To clarify, I want the process to be open to anybody! Literally:
> anybody who's interested ought to express an interest. That would be
> fantastic!! But once that's done, I think that team should collaborate
> as a unit.
> 
> So far, all we've had is the occasional person share an idea with the
> list, and then a bunch of people express an opinion. It's great that
> people are interested and are contributing. But that's not going to go
> anywhere, and we're never going to reach agreement on anything.
> 
> We need a team of people who feel empowered to just work on this
> together, iterate on their ideas, taking input as necessary, and then
> to present a final "this is what we want to go with" to the PMC.
> 
> 
> On 14 March 2015 at 13:33, Noah Slater <[email protected]> wrote:
>> The PMC is responsible for branding, as outlined in our bylaws:
>> 
>> http://couchdb.apache.org/bylaws.html#pmc
>> 
>> The PMC (myself and others) have been doing branding work, and talking
>> about branding for many years. So this is not uncharted waters for us.
>> Indeed, the current design was born of similar efforts a few years
>> ago.
>> 
>> In fact, it is this experience that is guiding me (and others on the
>> PMC) when we say that we do not want to open up the design process to
>> everyone, like we might do with a patch. Because we know what happens
>> when you do that. We've had a number of design efforts dead in the
>> water because people discussed it ad nauseam on the list.
>> 
>> Doing design in OSS is different than writing code. It does not lend
>> itself well to peer review in the same way that a patch does. Because
>> *everybody* and their dog feels like they have an opinion on a design.
>> 
>> That's why it's my preference is that people interested in working on
>> a brand/design refresh collaborate amongst themselves, taking input
>> from the community, and getting the final sign-off from the PMC.
>> 
>> 
>> On 13 March 2015 at 20:37, Johs Ensby <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Hi Noah,
>>>> On 13 Mar 2015, at 20:00, Noah Slater <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> On 13 March 2015 at 09:42, Johs Ensby <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Brand management at the PMC level is missing
>>>> 
>>>> What makes you say this?
>>> This was not meant as a negative to any person, certainly not to you.
>>> If the PMC has mandated you to take this, you are the brand manager.
>>> 
>>> I tried to drill down from 
>>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html 
>>> <http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html> to find out if there 
>>> was any formalized, specific responsibilities and found none.
>>> That means that it falls under the responsibility of the PMC.
>>> They are the de facto brand managers, I agree that they are the decision 
>>> makers
>>> Changing the brand is as important as a new release go/no-go
>>> But, and this was my point, I dont find Brand management recorded as a 
>>> specific responsibility.
>>> It’s all code, and who believes that branding isn’t important these days?
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> To ask this list to pick a designer for them is not a step forward
>>>> 
>>>> Well, I more meant to suggest that anyone who wishes to be on "the
>>>> design team" step forward. And then we let whatever team assembles
>>>> itself to just go at it, taking feedback from the community, and
>>>> getting the final approval from the PMC.
>>>> 
>>>> I actually think that this will reduce work, and reduce the peanut
>>>> gallery affect. I'm not sure that design competitions are the best
>>>> model for a brand refresh.
>>> 
>>> Competition was maybe not the best term.
>>> Let the designers finalize proposals to choose from, one per designer and 
>>> stage it so that it is for real, not this endless row of back and forth 
>>> discussions that lead nowhere.
>>> For designers to make a serious contributions they need to take input from 
>>> "the client” and deliver a proper proposal.
>>> Deadline for submission of proposals and then a serious eval process will 
>>> move this forward.
>>>> 
>>>>> 4) PMC invite Shane Curcuru for advice on this and they decide - he is 
>>>>> formally responsible for what we are discussing
>>>> 
>>>> The PMC is the "client" here. It's our call. Shane is there to assist
>>>> us with trademarks. :)
>>> I understand.
>>> Again, my point was to look at who have formal responsibility and I think 
>>> he could advice and at the same time discover something important about 
>>> brand management.
>>> It looks to me like this is unchartered waters in ASF.
>>> Learning how to engage designers as contributers, if there are any best 
>>> practice on what we discuss here etc
>>>> --
>>>> Noah Slater
>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This discussion on process is valuable in my opinion.
>>> johs
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Noah Slater
>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Noah Slater
> https://twitter.com/nslater

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