A friend writes:

X> Right or wrong, you probably just sent a new (now former) libertarian
packing. <X

There was nothing in his message saying he wanted any more liberty on any
issue, so I'm not so sure he was a libertarian earlier in the day.  However,
he might start becoming one if he follows any of the links I gave him.

X> We need to engage newbies in the areas where they agree with us and
completely ignore areas of disagreement. <X

I agree with the former sentiment, and I'll concede I should have mentioned
all the ways in which the LP lines up against corporate subsidies and
special protections -- even though that could as easily just turn him into a
better-armed anti-capitalism leftist.  I did point out our agreement that
the playing field should be level (even if he doesn't understand what that
means).  In the absence of his mentioning any other areas of potential
agreement, it seemed reasonable to give him the pro-market perspective on
collective bargaining.

My biggest concern in this thread was that Carl's remarks could be
misinterpreted to support the insidious myth that the long-run equilibrium
wage level is determined by supply and demand. That myth leads to all the
wrong policies on free trade, immigration, population, wages and hours
rules, minimum and maximum working age, occupational licensure, etc.
Economics textbooks tell us that the long-run equilibrium wage level is in
fact determined by the marginal productivity of labor, because wages tend to
be bid up by employers right to the point at which buying a marginal unit of
labor no longer generates extra profit.  See the graph at
http://marketliberal.org/Lesson.html#Productivity for an illustration of how
compensation and productivity tend to move in lockstep, regardless of labor
laws and other factors.  See
http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2006/08/how-are-wages-and-productivity-relate
d.html for more details.  [It's true that the market value of the product of
labor can temporarily drop if there is an exogenous shock increasing the
labor supply -- e.g. an immigration policy change -- but in the long run,
the market value of the product of labor is overwhelmingly determined by
technology and capital intensity (including human capital i.e. education)].

I can think of only one other myth of folk economics that is more
politically insidious than thinking that labor shortages can increase hourly
compensation over the long term.  That is the related (and thoroughly
discredited) Labor_theory_of_value
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_theory_of_value> , which if accepted
leads inexorably to socialism and command economics instead of market
economics.

Harland writes:

HH> Tony sounded like a libertarian and you tried to disagree with him. He
wanted less government. He did not "approach us seeking advocacy for more of
the kind of market regulations that we're trying to repeal." He said exactly
the opposite: "I don't want more laws just repel the ones against organizing
unions." <HH

Tony didn't mention (and probably cannot name) any general laws "against
organizing unions" in arbitrary industries, but there is a lot of state and
federal law that forces employers to recognize labor unions and bargain "in
good faith" with them. Tony very clearly implied he wanted to add to those
laws when he complained that one can be "fired for trying to organize a
union".  The 2004 LP Platform stated:

LP> An employer should have the right to recognize, or refuse to recognize,
a union as the collective bargaining agent of some, or all, of its
employees. We oppose government interference in bargaining, such as
compulsory arbitration or the imposition of an obligation to bargain.
Therefore, we urge repeal of the National Labor Relations Act, and all state
right-to-work laws which prohibit employers from making voluntary contracts
with unions. <LP

You continue:

HH> If you want to appeal to that voter,  tell him that the LP wants to
repeal the Taft-Hartley act, a bunch of other labor laws,  and get the
government out of labor-management negotiations. <HH

Getting the government out of the picture is exactly what I told him the LP
wants when I said "LP wants a level playing field". The Taft-Hartley Act
(never mentioned by name in any LP Platform) makes some pro-business
amendments to the NLRA, but the net effect of the U.S. labor law is of
course to tilt the playing field toward labor cartels. 

HH> Our platform may alienate YOU, but what reason do you have to think he
would disagree? I only saw Tony quoted on labor relations. <HH

Heh, let's ask Tony if he (like the LP Platform) wants employers to have
complete freedom of association to hire and fire as they see fit.  If he
agrees with that, I'll donate $100 to the LP in your name.

BH> If employees can be fired for organizing a union, they can also quit en
masse and work for an employer offering a better deal.  The right to fire
and the right to quit are two sides of the same coin. The LP wants a level
playing field too, but in America the field is clearly tilted toward unions.
For details of all the special legislation giving unions monopoly powers
[...] <BH

HH>  Quitting and firing are not "two sides of the same coin" at all in this
country. Unemployment insurance, wrongful termination torts, etc make them
quite different. <HH

Thanks for changing the context, which before my "but..." was clearly about
fundamental rights and not the status quo.  Libertarians believe that the
fundamental human rights to quit and to fire are symmetrical applications of
the principle of freedom of association, and that this symmetry is
independent of any restrictions that some government may now be imposing on
some people.  Do you dispute this?

HH> Employees cannot "quit en masse" when the cannot legally strike <HH

They most certainly would be able to quit en masse when the LP repeals all
laws against striking.

Reply via email to