We never said that we know more about any issue than you, we keep saying the same things:
1. We all agree that everyone deserves equall rights regaurdless of sexual orientation, and we can know this wheather we are gay or not. 2. We all agree that mariage should not be licensed by any government agency because government has no place in volantary relationships and interactions inbetween consenting individuals (at least I assume Brian Miller agrees with this since he claims to be a libertarian-let me know if this is false). 3. What we do not agree on is wheather Ron Paul is a biggot, a homophobic, or agrees with points 1 and 2 above. It is my understanding that Ron Paul agrees with statements 1 and 2 and I have seen no evidence to support that he does not agree with points 1 and 2 or to support the accusations of homophobia and bigotry. I know this is really tough to get through the thick skull of Mr. Miller, but please read this over and over untill you get it. Then PLEASE provide me with some hard evidence to support your accusations of Ron Paul or just shut up. I am an extreemly busy man and I am growing extreemly tired of this discussion. You have been asked several times for some hard evidence. Quit bull shitting and either provide the evidence or admit that you are wrong. I believe this conversation is just about over. Without evidence your claims are bull shit so either cough it up or shut up. -Tony --- Anthony Gregory <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Brian, I don't think you're reading what we're > saying. > > Look, are you a user of meth, cocaine and LSD? If > not, does that mean you > can't rigorously oppose the war on drugs? I find > such reasoning quite > dubious. > > Since you don't know anything about my "sexuality" I > think it's presumptuous > of you to say I 'm trying to tell anyone that they > don't understand what it > is to be whatever they are. What I'm saying is > someone doesn't have to be > queer to know that queers have been treated terribly > by the state and by > society and that there's a fundamental human decency > and liberty that they > have a human right to enjoy. > > On 11/1/07, Brian Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > Well, gents, considering the rampant problem of > heterophobia in society, I > > must plead guilty to an astonishing lack of > compassion for the heterosexual > > community. > > > > Fortunately, I am white, otherwise I might be > accused of anti-white racism > > as well. We know what a problem that is in our > society as well! ;) > > > > Honestly, if you gents believe this sort of thing, > and think that a bunch > > of straight guys can lecture LGBTQ people on what > it's like to be gay (and > > how things "ought to be"), when they have no life > experience or interest in > > learning from LGBTQ people (such as Outright's > membership), I cringe to > > think of what will happen when race relations > issues get called up. > > > > I've already seen embarrassing episodes with white > suburban guys lecturing > > black Oaklanders about how life is for racial > minorities, and how their > > concerns are "ridiculous" or "out of context" too. > > > > Aren't you LRC-affiliated boys supposed to be > about growing the party? > > One way to grow the party is to listen to the > concerns of people who aren't > > like you, rather than lecture those people on "the > way things are." > > > > A simple observation that you don't know much > about these issues due to a > > lack of involvement in the community, and a lack > of engagement with Outright > > in particular, is not bigoted -- it's simple fact. > It's no different from > > pointing out that you don't know what it's like to > give birth. > > > > I hate to deprive you of your manufactured > outrage, but if this is the > > sort of thing you're planning to bring to > convention, I suggest you save > > yourselves the plane fare and hotel fare and don't > attend. The white > > straight guys telling the queers, blacks and women > how they don't know > > anything about their issues will *not* go down a > treat -- either with the LP > > general membership or the broader political > campaign. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Brian > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Anthony Burke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: Anthony Gregory <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > Brian Miller < > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Cc: Brian Holtz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > [email protected]; Anthony > > Burke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2007 11:23:41 AM > > Subject: Re: Ron Paul a "homophobic bigot"? > > > > Yes I agree that after Brian Millers statement > that > > those critizizing him cannot possibly understand > the > > situation because they are not Lesbian-gay-or > > transexual is a prejiduced and bigoted statement. > I > > also am not gay (or transexual or bisexual). I > also > > have stood up in defense for Ron Paul. I also > know > > that the only real libertarian position is for the > > government to have absolutely no interaction with > > peoples mariages. Mariage as well as sexual > > relationships are personal relationships that have > > nothing to do with the state and all these > > relationships should be considered protected under > the > > first amendment in the bill of rights for freedom > of > > expression. THus even state governments have no > right > > to enforce any laws or rules regaurding mariage > and > > sexual relations. Any libertarian can understand > this > > easily regaurdless of sexual orientation. > > > > Additionally-despite numerous requests to Mr. > Miller > > for any evidence to support his acusations against > Ron > > Paul I have not recieved a shred of real evidence. > > The only feeble attempt I recieved was that table > he > > sent out where he explicitly stated that they > filled > > in the blanks for Ron Paul because he did not > answer > > their survey. My guess is that Ron Paul does not > want > > to offend some of his more homophobic > constituents, > > but those in the gay comunity should realize this > and > > lend him their support. I can pretty much > gaurentee > > that electing Ron Paul would do absolutley no > damage > > to their cause and would help them emensly (unless > > this group of "libertarians" is actually looking > for > > fazoritism from the fed gov rather than a hands > off > > free society approach). > > > > Well thats my two cents and to reiterate-Brian > Miller > > appears to bear a lot more prejiduce against > non-gays > > than we heterosexuals bear against gays. > > > > Peace, > > Tony > > > > > > > > > > --- Anthony Gregory <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > Here, by the way, is what I tried to post on LP > > > Radicals: > > > > > > Ron Paul has said gay people should not be > booted > > > from the military unless > > > they act disruptively, same as straights. > > > > > > Personally, I disagree with him. Straights and > gays > > > have no right to work > > > for an aggressive, socialist institution. And > > > although I think gays would > > > serve the state just as well as straights I > really > > > am no bigot on > > > sexuality I certainly wouldn't want the less > > > disruptive people working for > > > the state in an aggressive capacity. The less > > > efficient, the better. But > > > he's a minarchist and we disagree on the > military in > > > numerous ways. But I > > > don't see his position as unegalitarian. (Even > if it > > > were, that wouldn't > > > _necessarily_ make it less libertarian, though I > > > would tend to question it.) > > > I see it as equal between the genders. [Sic: > Should > > > be "between people of > > > various sexual orientations."] > > > > > > As for gay marriage, he believes marriage > shouldn't > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
