Brian Miller wrote:
BM) Daniel Imperato is a Life Member of the Libertarian Party too, but I
wouldn't call his platform (which calls for charitable contributions to be
regulated, and calls for a tax on pharmaceuticals to support a universal
health care platform) "libertarian." (BM
I never said that Paul's life membership in the LP is what makes him a
libertarian.
BM) I'm going with the policies, which are traditional Republican
conservative positions on most social issues (BM
The facts refute yet another Brian Miller smear against Ron Paul. Ron Paul
does not endorse the "traditional Republican position" on gambling, suicide,
substance use, obscenity, commercial sexual services, federal funding of
faith-based initiatives, federal funding of abstinence education, federal
funding for promotion of marriage, federal legislative and judicial
interference with states' abortion rules, federal constitutional amendments
against gay marriage, and more.
BM) and with what the man himself is saying (that he's not a libertarian,
but a conservative). (BM
That's inaccurate. He's said he's not a member of the LP, but he's never
said he's "not a libertarian".
BM) facts are facts. (BM
LOL. Quote Ron Paul saying he's not a (small-L) libertarian. Go ahead.
Make my day.
BM) I'm not particularly interested in getting involved in yet another one
of your circular egofests. (BM
Translation: you cannot cite any "facts" that refute a single one of my
claims.
BM) Suffice to say that when Ron Paul declares that he is not a Libertarian,
but a conservative Republican, I believe him. (BM
I too believe that Paul is a conservative Republican whose formal party
affiliation is not Libertarian in any politically significant sense. Now,
go ahead and quote Paul saying he's "not a libertarian". I dare you.
BM) I certainly believe him more than a deranged internet troll who wants to
insist that words mean things other than what they say. (BM
I too believe Paul more than I believe you. But I wouldn't say you're
"deranged". Instead, you're just someone who aspires to iconoclasm but can
only muster mendaciously paranoid mud-slinging.
BM) [Paul] does take small-l libertarian positions on other issues -- as do
other Democrats and Republicans in the race. (BM
None of the others are remotely as libertarian as Paul is. The claim that
any another candidate (your team tried to cite Kucinich) is equally
libertarian as Paul is a smoking cinder at:
*
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lpsf-discuss/message/13324
*
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lpsf-discuss/message/13332
BM) The problem is that he's being promoted as a virtual LPer in the race
when he categorically rejects the LP both in public and in private. (BM
Embracing the LP is not the definition of libertarianism. I now have five
position papers and one pamphlet from Paul's 1988 LP presidential campaign,
and I don't see (or have ever heard of) a single issue on which he's changed
his position since the LP nominated him for president. In fact, except for
his positions on abortion and immigration and marriage faith and credit, his
stated positions are closer to the old extremist LP Platform than were those
of the 1980 LP nominee (Ed Clark) and than the later views of the 1972 and
1976 nominees (Hospers and MacBride). You can't say that of any other
Democrat or Republican presidential hopeful -- at least not accurately.
BM) He himself has stated that he has significant differences with the LP on
key issues (BM
I seriously doubt that Paul has ever had occasion in this campaign to
characterize his positions according to their differences with the LP's --
even leaving aside the technical problem that the LP Platform has since 2006
had a temporary shortage of positions to disagree with. (I'm working on
fixing that.) Since you seem congenitally unable to produce Paul quotes
when I challenge you for them, this question will probably remain unsettled.
BM) yet many of his supporters in the LP are asking us to ignore those
important differences (BM
LOL. I was extensively
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lpradicals/message/1252> documenting Paul's
heresies from Rothbardian extremism many weeks before you first tried to
give me what you hilariously thought would be a "spanking" on the question
of Ron Paul.
BM) and embrace him as the "real libertarian in the race" -- then when Paul
declares he isn't a libertarian, we're told that "it's just a question of
labels." (BM
It remains a lie to claim that Paul has said in this campaign that he "isn't
a libertarian". The above quotes are apparently fabricated, and nobody here
will be fooled by this slimy unsourced use of the word "labels" to conflate
the distinct labels of small-L libertarianism and big-L Libertarianism.
BM) it's a question of plain truth (BM
If "plain truth" were on your side, you'd simply provide a Ron Paul quote to
refute each of my claims, and completely embarrass me. But you know you
can't, which is why you vouch for "truth" and "facts" while fleeing from
them.
BM) Either Paul is a libertarian, or he isn't. He insists in public --
repeatedly -- that he is not a libertarian, but a conservative (BM
Lie. Ron Paul on national network TV described his campaign as having "this
constitutional, very libertarian message". When Stephanopoulos followed up
by identifiying Paul's principles as "libertarian", Paul said "Right."
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: You're running as a Republican this time. Why?
REP. PAUL: Well, I was elected to Congress 10 times as a Republican. That's
a pretty good reason. I've been able to deliver this constitutional, very
libertarian message to my district and they like it and they reelect me. And
it's practical. Third parties are - the laws are biased against them. Unless
you're a billionaire, you can't even get on the ballot. So that's not very
democratic.
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: You've also really built up a reputation for living out
your libertarian principles. You served, as you said, 20 years in Congress
but you're not going to take a congressional pension.
REP. PAUL: Right.
When the topic of the LP comes up, Paul never denies that the label
"libertarian" accurately describes his views, and instead of saying anything
bad about the LP, he usually points out how the deck is stacked against
third parties.
BM) In this case, I'm giving Paul the benefit of the doubt and assuming that
he is not transparently lying when he says he isn't a libertarian (BM
The one who is transparently lying is Brian Miller. Go ahead, prove me
wrong by quoting Paul saying "I am not a libertarian" (note the small L).
Bring it.
BM) but a Republican conservative (BM
He's both. Deal with it.
