I am not a member of this group and have never given permission for my comments made in any other group to be posted here.
OutrightLibertarians has always been a Limited Group, most notable is our limitation about subject matter (limited to GLBTQ AND Libertarian issues). We also have learned through long and difficult trial and error to limit our group to people who are capable of polite and respectful conversation. Our group would not have survived nearly 7 years without these limitations. However, we do not limit free speech within our topic or limit who can be a member, only people who cannot respect the few limitations we have. If you do not like how we have set up our Yahoo group, you are welcome to start your own. You may prefer riotous argument and disrespectful language, we prefer educated and respectful discussion. And, yes we do have some members that can be easily provoked by disrespectful troublemakers. One in particular stopped when we asked him to and then voluntarily apologized to the group. Mr Holtz was respectfully asked to stop stealing the words of our members and posting them to another group without permission, several times. He refused and continued to compound his offense. As I have never been a member of this group and do not want to be, please remove all references to my name from this group, and all comments made by me in other forums used here without my permission. You may also remove these two postings. -Allan Wallace --- In [email protected], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > As a libertarian, and thinking of this as a group of like-minded individuals, I find the moderator's efforts to quash speech dismaying and incompatible with libertarian beliefs. > > Alan, please clarify your stance as requested by Brian Holtz. > > Freedom of information is absolute. There are no shades of grey. Anyone seeking to hide information from the public secretly desires to have power over said forum. > > Kurt Ferber > Libertarian > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > > -----Original Message----- > From: Allan Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 18:07:45 > To:"Brian Holtz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc:<[email protected]> > Subject: [marketliberal] RE: Message not approved: Restoration of 2004 LP Platform > > > Dear Ex Comm of Outright Libertarians; > > Please note that Brian Holtz has for a Fourth Time in the last few weeks posted comments made by other members of this group to another forum (his [email protected]) without permission and in defiance of at least three requests to stop doing so. > > Per our previous conversations, I will revoke Brian Holtz membership in our OutrightLibertarians Yahoo Group for blatant and repeated violations of our participation guidelines. > > -Allan Wallace, Moderator > OutrightLibertarians Yahoo Group > > > At 04:42 PM 1/1/2008, Brian Holtz wrote: > > Allan, please clarify. Are you demanding that I apologize for, and desist from, > > * cc'ing my OutrightLibertarians postings to other forums; > * bcc'ing my OutrightLibertarians postings to other forums; > * forwarding my own OutrightLibertarians postings to other forums; or > * some combination of the above? > You obviously have a vested interest in seeing that my last response to you didn't reach the Outright forum, so it's interesting that you didn't recuse yourself on this matter and ask another moderator to decide it. I'm quite confident you have never ever had a member quit because some poster had a policy of bcc'ing his postings to an archive of his public writings from which no reader had ever cross-posted back to your forum. As for "consistently step[ping] over these boundaries unchecked", can you say "Brian Miller"? Are you going to ask Miller to apologize to the group for his guideline violations (that I document in an email accompanying this one)? Have you ever asked a non-straight person to apologize to the forum? > > Please forward this to the relevant Outright body of appeal, including an unedited copy of the message you censored (which I append below). > > Brian Holtz > > http://LibertarianI <http://LibertarianIntelligence.com> ntelligence.com > Signal Intelligence About The LP > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:notify@ <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Allan Wallace > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 12:45 PM > To: Brian Holtz > Subject: Message not approved: Restoration of 2004 LP Platform > > > Brian Holtz; > > You have declared (below) that you will not stop the practice of cross-posting another author's comments without the permission, in spite of being politely warned twice before. > > The "fair use" policy you spoke of covers only whether or not Yahoo allows you to participate in their groups generally. Yahoo allows the creators and moderators of each group to decide who may and may not be members of that individual group. > > Your opinion of what our guidelines should be is beside the point. We have set up these guidelines over the group's nearly 7 year history because we have found that members who adhere to the guidelines quit when someone consistently steps over these boundaries unchecked. > > Please post an apology to the group and promise not to cross-post without permission again. Please do so immediately and before posting anything else to the group. > > -Allan Wallace, Moderator > OutrightLibertarians Yahoo Group > > > > OutrightLibertarians is a public forum, readable by anyone with an > Internet > > connection, and devoted exclusively to commentary about public > > political topics. It clearly falls within Fair Use for me to quote > > anything > said here > > for the non-commercial purpose of political commentary. There is no > > question that my quotes have always been fair and in context. > 'Politeness" > > does not dictate that I'm not allowed to comment anywhere else on what > > I read here, and I will continue to do so. > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Holtz [ > mailto:brian@ <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> holtz.org] > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 11:27 AM > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > Subject: RE: [OutrightLibertarians] Re: Restoration of 2004 LP Platform > > Allan Wallace wrote: > > > > AW) I am still not happy with your posting our discussions on another group! If I want my opinions on another group I will put them there myself. It is extremely impolite to post someone's opinions elsewhere without their permission. (AW > > > OutrightLibertarians is a public forum, readable by anyone with an Internet connection, and devoted exclusively to commentary about public political topics. It clearly falls within Fair Use for me to quote anything said here for the non-commercial purpose of political commentary. There is no question that my quotes have always been fair and in context. 'Politeness" does not dictate that I'm not allowed to comment anywhere else on what I read here, and I will continue to do so. Further, I consider it a courtesy to those I'm replying to here that I use a cc: to indicate where else I'm commenting about them, so that they may respond there if they wish. > > Your only possible reasonable objection to my practice would be that if it were causing an unwelcome volume of cross-posting from people who read the other forum but not this one. However, there has never been a single such cross-posting. > > If seeing the cc: of the other forum is nevertheless so (conveniently) objectionable to you, I will endeavor to remember to use a bcc: instead of a cc:, since your belaboring this issue has made it sufficiently clear to the few who might care that this is my practice. Fair notice has been given. > > > > AW) How often is the platform committee recommendations accepted, as is, on controversial topics? Not very often in my experience. (AW > > > This alleged fact is no basis for you "realizing" that gay rights will be in danger of removal from the Platform in Denver, and is a very flimsy basis for you ignoring the clear evidence to the contrary. It's just daft to suggest that the delegates in Denver are going to opt for a Platform that says even LESS than what the PlatCom draft will say. > > > > AW) There can be amendments or movements to eject whole sections or individual planks from the floor. And, they did not have the votes to remove it last time, but they have been gaining ground since then. (AW > > > The old Sexual Rights plank came in 9th out of 61 in the 2002 voting, received 81% approval in the 2004 voting, and was almost exactly in the middle in terms of plank popularity in 2006 -- a year that non-reformers claim was an aberration unlikely to be repeated. Again, I'd love to know precisely who you think "they" are, and what specifically makes you think "they have been gaining ground" against Platform gay rights since 2006. > > > > AW) We need to stop the LP from becoming the Party of slightly more Principle than the Republican Party. (AW > > > canard n. an unfounded or false, deliberately misleading story > > My takedown of the above propaganda stands unrebutted at > http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OutrightLibertarians/message/3120> yahoo.com/group/OutrightLibertarians/message/3120 . Here it is again: > > The Republican Party makes no effort to reverse all the myriad laws regulating prices, minimum wages, maximum hours, equal pay, plant closure, family leave, hiring, firing, occupational licensure, insurance policies, zoning, rents, product safety, drug efficacy, fuel efficiency, pollution mitigation technology, parental media control, media copying technology, etc. The GOP failed to use its legislative majority to start privatizing any of our socialized systems of education, health care, health insurance, agriculture, and retirement savings. The GOP supports regulations and bans on gambling, suicide, substance use, pornography, gay marriage, sexual services, reproductive services, and cloning. > > To compare moderate Libertarians to the Republican Party is at best obtuse, and at worst is -- well, something the censors here don't allow us to talk about. > > Brian Holtz > > http://LibertarianI <http://libertarianintelligence.com/> ntelligence.com > Signal Intelligence About The LP > >
