On CB's first comment on SOCIO-history, I certainly completely agree, and
think Ilyenkov would, too.
On CB's second comment, about the subject matter of Marxist psychology, I
think it is true that a dialectical materialist psychology must begin with
sociology and social psychology, and the study of the individual must be
based on sociology and social psychology - and as CB I think implies,
cannot be developed without it. But in response to the phrase "For Marxism
there is only social psychology, no individual psychology separate from
social psych" I want to add the thought that the task of comprehending the
individual cannot be *reduced* to the study of social psychology - that the
individual constitutes a higher "level" or "domain" of complexity and
requires a study of the laws of development and so forth associated with
that realm - generalizations and observations that are not identical with
those of social psychology, and require their own scientific study,
etc. An analogy would be the study of chemistry compared with biology.
- Steve
<end>
************************************************
At 12:23 PM 6/10/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/31/05 07:48AM >>>
>
>>from page 283:
>>"A consistently materialist conception of thought, of course, alters the
>>approach to the key problems of logic in a cardinal way, in particular to
>>interpretation of the nature of logical categories. Marx and Engels
>>established above all that [the] external world was not given to the
>>individual as it was in itself simply and directly in his contemplation,
>>but only in the course of its being altered by man: and that both the
>>contemplating man himself and the world contemplated were products of
history."
^^^^^^^^
CB: "History" here being critically SOCIO-history, i.e. not just the
individual doing the logic , but many people. A key Marxist modification
of the notion of logic is that it is not the product of an individual
brain, or the qualities of an individual organ, but the product of many
people's experiences, including people who are dead at the time the
particular individual in question is doing the logic. "History" here
refers to people who "are history", i.e. dead.
Not just practice, but SOCIAL practice. Not just the result of one human's
interaction and alteration of nature, but of many people's interaction and
alteration of nature.
^^^^^^^^
>>
>>from page 285:
>>"Psychological analysis of the act of reflexion of the external world in
>>the individual head therefore cannot be the means of developing logic.
>>The individual thinks only insofar as he has already mastered the general
>>(logical) determinations historically moulded before him and completely
>>independently of him. And psychology as a science does not investigate
>>the development of human culture or civilisation, rightly considering it
>>a premise independent of the individual."
CB: "does not" or "does" ? For Marxism there is only social psychology,
no individual psychology separate from social psych.
>>
>>from page 286-287:
>>"In labour (production) man makes one object of nature act on another
>>object of the same nature in accordance with their own properties and
>>laws of existence. Marx and Engels showed that the logical forms of man's
>>action were the consequences (reflection) of real laws of human actions
>>on objects, i.e. of practice in all its scope and development, laws that
>>are independent of any thinking. Practice understood materialistically,
>>appeared as a process in whose movement each object involved in it
>>functioned (behaved) in accordance with its own laws, bringing its own
>>form and measure to light in the changes taking place in it."
>
>
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