>>CB: You haven't demonstrated that I am mistaken. What passages quoting Marx directly on relations of production are you talking about ? Repeat them or refer them again.
Also, what specific sections of Theories of Surplus Value I are you talking about ?<< ******************** WL: Here what what Marx writes . . . AGAIN!: "In the process of production, human beings work not only upon nature, but also upon one another. They produce only by working together in a specified manner and reciprocally exchanging their activities. In order to produce, they enter into definite connections and relations to one another, and only within these social connections and relations does their influence upon nature operate i.e., does production take place. These social relations between the producers, and the conditions under which they exchange their activities and share in the total act of production, will naturally vary according to the character of the means of production. With the discover of a new instrument of warfare, the firearm, the whole internal organization of the army was necessarily altered, the relations within which individuals compose an army and can work as an army were transformed, and the relation of different armies to another was likewise changed. We thus see that the social relations within which individuals produce, the social relations of production, are altered, transformed, with the change and development of the material means of production, of the forces of production. The relations of production in their totality constitute what is called the social relations, society, and, moreover, a society at a definite stage of historical development, a society with peculiar, distinctive characteristics. Ancient society, feudal society, bourgeois (or capitalist) society, are such totalities of relations of production, each of which denotes a particular stage of development in the history of mankind. " http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/wage-labour/ch05.htm All I have done is virtually stated Marx words verbatim: "The relations of production in their totality constitute what is called the social relations, society, and, moreover, a society at a definite stage of historical development, a society with peculiar, distinctive characteristics." What are these relations of production in their totality? YOU STATE PROPERTY as class. Is it not clear that property is an aspect of relations of production. What I wrote is that relations of production or production relations or social "relations of production are the laws defining property and the relationship of people to property in the process of production." Here is what you repeatedly state: >>>CB: Relations of production or property relations are class relations. The organization of material productive forces, including the organization of people "on the shop floor", the technical division of labor, is not class relations.<<< Waistline PS. This exact passage was quoted September 17, during are yearly recurring discussion on classes and changes in the means of production at the following http://lists.econ.utah.edu/pipermail/marxism-thaxis/2005-September/019052.html _______________________________________________ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list [email protected] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
