I accept your criticism of my use of the phrase 'belly of the beast'.  I
agree that our primary responsibility is to our neighbours.

When Paul Gilroy wrote There Ain't No Black in the Union Jack in the 1980s I
think his position was black nationalist.  Certainly the universal humanism
he is now advocating is a big shift in position, and a good one.

I may go to the Caudwell conference (which I did not know about), but not
sure at the moment.

Phil

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ralph
Dumain
Sent: 04 October 2007 09:33
To: [email protected]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] [marxistphilosophy] Presentations to the Fifth
International Marx Congress

Examples will take some time to tackle, so I'll be brief for now.

My late friend Jim Murray taught me that you're never as isolated as 
you think, and that in actuality individual dilemmas are also social 
dilemmas, so don't think your frustrations are yours 
alone.  Actually, CLR James said much the same thing.

I don't know what to say about your humble regard.  I'm not sure it's 
deserved.  Let's just say we're up against a behemoth and it's hard 
not to be completely swallowed up by it.

As for the 'belly of the beast', I generally don't use that 
expression, because when American lefties use it, they are expressing 
their subcultural fetishism divorcing themselves from the surrounding 
society, as if their primary responsibility is to people halfway 
around the world and not to their neighbors.  I find this attitude 
extremely obnoxious, as it reinforces all the bad cultism that 
infects the activist subculture.  The ruling class is the beast, and 
the subordinate classes can be mighty beastly as well, but the USA is our
home.

There are certainly some people among the lower classes who are 
hungry for ideas.  It doesn't seem to be a majority, to put it 
politely.  First, there is the question of respect for education.  I 
suspect that has declined, accompanying the general cynicism and 
directionlessness of the population.  A reverence for education 
historically has tended to be a vague ideal rather than a specific 
grasping at it, because generations who were deprived of the 
opportunity often idealized it.  A lot of people of the Depression 
generation felt this way and a number of their children raised in the 
1950s did as well.  It may be my experience of (Southern) black 
people that gave me the strongest impression of what I'm describing, 
though I've met other quite successful old folks of various 
backgrounds who've got it all yet somehow have an inferiority complex 
about a lack of a respectable college education. But I don't think we 
have any real respect for education now, having been degraded by the 
general disarray and infantilization of popular culture.  People I 
know who value education and hold themselves to some standard find 
themselves resisting the general culture.  Minorities feel the 
squeeze more than others, I daresay, though there is no public forum 
in which to express this. Again, I'm biased by the demographics of 
the people I know.

The situation is more complex now because the ideas we need now have 
to cut through many more ideological layers, and then they have to be 
communicated in a social context that does not support a high level 
of discourse.  A little bit of intelligence in the public areas is so 
rare, it is mistaken for profundity.

The "first-rate" intellectuals you name are all academics, and I 
would not testify as to the size and characteristics of the audience 
they reach, though structurally they do have positions with which to 
reach some audience.

I'm curious about your remarks about Paul Gilroy. Gilroy was never a 
black nationalist from what I know.  I haven't followed him for a few 
years now, but as a black Brit migrant to U.S. academia, he found 
himself in conflict with black American academics in Black Studies 
(or whatever it's called now--I can't stand using the now obligatory 
term "African American"). Gilroy got some hostility for his book 
AGAINST RACE. But comparing him to such second-raters as Cornel West 
or Mike Dyson, it's not hard to see why he would be resented as a 
foreign interloper.  But I'm a few years out of date on what Gilroy 
is up to.  He's not exactly a Marxist, but he's also not exactly a 
non-Marxist. He deals with cultural questions, and naturally he's 
influenced by post-marxist thought as occurs everywhere including UK 
Cultural Studies, but he's better in his field than most, it seems to me.

I'm not sure what it means to forget the race question: here there is 
no escape from it. At best there's a recognition that it is 
necessarily tied up with the class question, but given the repression 
of class politics, it's tough to make that a central concept beyond a 
laundry list of specific social issues (poverty, health care, 
affirmative action, etc.). The question, however, is more subtle than 
putting everything in cookie-cutter Marxist terms.  The 
interrelationships of cultural, generational, economic, and other 
components of the situation are of a subtlety that demands more than 
what we as a society or even an intelligentsia are putting into 
it.  Whatever "debate culture" we have cannot sustain any great depth 
of debate.  Depth exists in various individuals, but it gets 
communicated to relatively few.  That's no reason to give up, but it 
is what it is, as we say.

At 10:43 PM 10/3/2007, Phil Walden wrote:
>Ralph,
>Yes I am interested in your examples.  Anyway you and the USA guys are in
>the belly of the beast and we in the UK regard you humbly with great
>respect.  But, forgive me, is it possible that your isolation is not quite
>as severe as you are expressing it at the moment?  You may not be aware of
>this to the full, but your idea-disseminating efforts have done much to
>break down dogmatism within Marxism.  Of course there is loads to be done
to
>build up a debate culture and dogmatism is a constant incubus on all our
>backs.  Philosophy should teach us that good debate is not really about
>winning the debate (I'm serious) but about giving people more options than
>they currently have.  You are probably more of a scientific Marxist, Ralph.
>But many moons ago you went beyond the narrow horizons of the Leninist
>groups in order to give people tools to think with.  It cannot be a total
>coincidence that the Leninist groups have lost so much influence in this
>time.  This is wholly positive and in the interests of the American (and
>international) working class.  OK, frustration at the media culture is
>entirely warranted, and even worse in USA than in UK.  But let's hold onto
>the truth that the working class loves ideas when it comes into contact
with
>them.  And what's more don't you have some first-rate intellectuals in the
>USA?  Fredric Jameson, Robert Pippin, Terry Pinkard, Robert Wallace, David
>Harvey, Bertell Ollman, to name a few.  Can I just say that I think Paul
>Gilroy's now revised position (he used to be a black nationalist) that the
>way forward for black people is to forget the race question and adopt
>universal humanism is very important and very smart.  That doesn't make him
>a Marxist of course but we Marxists can learn things from people who
haven't
>learnt the Marx lesson.
>Phil
>


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