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"Do you really not get the concept that when members of an ethnic group - ANY ethnic group = are criticized in public by other members of the same group, those comments are taken more seriously that those of outsiders?" No, I do not agree with this. It depends highly on the subject matter and the nature of the criticism. Moreover, when we are talking about issues that are fundamentally related to race and rights, I think saying that members of the "same" ethnic group have greater credibility is essentially a validation of the racism in question. I do not think that is necessarily unique to Zionism, but it applies. I am also not blind to the fact that, from a pragmatic standpoint, what you are saying is simply a bitter fact of the world we live in. But I do not think it is ethical or strategic to leave this unquestioned. It is fundamentally what the issue of Zionism is -- that Jewish people from any part of the world are entitled to a say in the fate of Palestine, whereas the Palestinians and those who identify woth them are secondary and presumably nefarious. To make the point, I do not think most reasonable people would find it suspicious to hear a non-Muslim condemn ISIS, a white person condemn Bill Cosby, etc. Maybe in some contexts, but that certainly isn't the norm. On Thursday, April 28, 2016, Sheldon Ranz <sran...@gmail.com> wrote: > What is "simple" about that? Do you really not get the concept that when > members of an ethnic group - ANY ethnic group = are criticized in public by > other members of the same group, those comments are taken more seriously > that those of outsiders? It's all about being on the inside giving one a > better vantage point. This has nothing to do with "Zionist racism" or any > other bogeyman you choose to summon because you're frustrated. > > On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 5:58 PM, A.R. G <amithrgu...@gmail.com > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','amithrgu...@gmail.com');>> wrote: > >> "Identifying Chabon's ethnicity simply means his criticisms of Israel are >> to be taken more seriously than that of a Gentile (who might be >> anti-Semitic) in the eyes of the general public. " >> >> What is "simple" about that? That is the central part of Zionist racism: >> That political decision-making in Palestine is the exclusive provenance of >> Jews from anywhere in the world and that opposition generally should be >> seen as "anti-Semitic". Her entire point is that that isn't so "simple". >> >> I'm not sure what you mean to compare Jews in America or elsewhere to >> black people in America. The analogy (if one is necessary) would be to >> white people in America. Following your logic (admittedly this is a cheap >> analogy) it would mean that we should promote white people's voices because >> they have greater legitimacy and are less likely to be written off as black >> hatred of the white, or due to "fears of a black planet," or because Glenn >> Beck and Alex Jones' moronic followers believe that blacks are out to get >> them. >> >> In the short run, it might be a simpler way to convince racists, but in >> the long term it reaffirms that blacks (and Palestinians) are secondary and >> that solidarity with them is limited to those who are racially approved by >> the states in question. It's like a form-vs-content contradiction. >> >> - Amith >> >> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 2:32 PM, Sheldon Ranz <sran...@gmail.com >> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sran...@gmail.com');>> wrote: >> >>> "Yet there is an inevitable risk associated with the ongoing privileging >>> of Jewish voices denouncing Israel. >>> This is because by privileging their voices, we are implicitly accepting >>> the Zionist narrative of Israel representing all Jews, with very few >>> exceptions. " >>> >>> Here, the writer stumbles. Identifying Chabon's ethnicity simply means >>> his criticisms of Israel are to be taken more seriously than that of a >>> Gentile (who might be anti-Semitic) in the eyes of the general public. >>> It's the same as 'privileging' the criticisms by Black Agenda Report of the >>> US Black Establishment over those made by white people, or "privileging" >>> the criticisms of Nada Elia of the Palestine Authority over mine, a >>> non-Palestinian. >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:36 PM, A.R. G via Marxism < >>> marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu >>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu');>> wrote: >>> >>>> ******************** POSTING RULES & NOTES ******************** >>>> #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. >>>> #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. >>>> #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. >>>> ***************************************************************** >>>> >>>> >>>> Nada Elia making precisely the point about Jewish privilege and >>>> chauvinism >>>> that the assholes from Jews Without Borders (the cult that attacked Lou >>>> and >>>> I over the Alison Weir debacle) keep trying to promote. >>>> >>>> One of several very good articles by this scholar. >>>> >>>> >>>> http://mondoweiss.net/2016/04/it-is-time-to-stop-celebrating-jewish-dissent-in-the-palestine-solidarity-movement/ >>>> >>>> The list of BDS successes seems to grow longer every day. More >>>> professional associations are endorsing the academic boycott of Israel, >>>> cultural workers continue to denounce Israeli abuses, and labor unions, >>>> churches, even cities are divesting from companies that benefit from >>>> Israel’s illegal practices. These are all wonderful manifestations of >>>> the >>>> advances we are making. Ultimately, however, BDS is not economic >>>> warfare. >>>> If it were, we would be doomed to fail, because we can successfully >>>> boycott >>>> every Israeli item in every grocery store in the entire country, we >>>> would >>>> still not be making a dent in the US funding of Israel’s war crimes. >>>> Indeed, the Obama Administration has just announced that it would give >>>> Israel the largest aid package yet. Our biggest BDS victory achieved so >>>> far by activists for Palestinian rights may well be the discourse change >>>> that BDS has produced in the West. >>>> >>>> Judged by that criterion, it is absolutely clear that we are winning. >>>> We >>>> have not yet achieved our goals, namely justice for Palestine, and >>>> indeed >>>> the situation on the ground in Palestine seems to have worsened as home >>>> demolitions and extra-judicial executions are daily occurrences, even as >>>> the siege on Gaza continues to choke that part of the country, >>>> reminding us >>>> of the urgency of our activism here. But the change on the ground cannot >>>> happen without a change in the global narrative that misrepresented >>>> Palestine. And that change, the shattering of the once iron-clad >>>> Zionist >>>> narrative, is happening, as we regularly hear and read denunciations of >>>> Israel’s abuses in various forums. This was most obvious when US >>>> presidential candidate Bernie Sanders spoke at a nationally televised >>>> electoral debate about Palestinian rights, and Israel’s >>>> “disproportionate >>>> response.” Only days later, Pulitzer Prize laureate Michael Chabon >>>> gave a >>>> powerful interview in which he describes the horrors he witnessed while >>>> on >>>> a tour of Hebron. >>>> >>>> Chabon’s interview circulated amongst Palestinian-rights activists like >>>> brush fire on a scorching day, most often prefaced with an explanation >>>> that >>>> he is a “Jewish-American writer.” This information, certainly offered >>>> with >>>> the best intentions, is nevertheless treacherous, in that it can uphold >>>> an >>>> oppressive dynamic. >>>> >>>> Jewish voices are welcome, of course, in the global denunciation of >>>> Zionism >>>> as a racist ideology. Identifying oneself as Jewish when one speaks out >>>> against Israel’s policies also helps dismantle the accusation that >>>> seeking >>>> justice for Palestinians is anti-Semitic. Yet there is an inevitable >>>> risk >>>> associated with the ongoing privileging of Jewish voices denouncing >>>> Israel. >>>> This is because by privileging their voices, we are implicitly accepting >>>> the Zionist narrative of Israel representing all Jews, with very few >>>> exceptions. It is these “exceptions,” then, that Palestinian rights >>>> activists place on a pedestal. >>>> >>>> The privileging of Jewish voices is more serious than whites denouncing >>>> anti-Black racism. Because when whites denounce racism, there is no >>>> suggestion that they too are victimized by the structural system. White >>>> allies generally acknowledge the privilege they are born into. Those >>>> whites who claim “All Lives Matter” are not considered allies. >>>> >>>> The dynamics between Jewish and Palestinian voices around the Question >>>> of >>>> Palestine, however, are different precisely because of the attempt at >>>> normalization that have plagued this issue for decades. The Zionist >>>> discourse had started out as one of exclusive Jewish victimhood, as if >>>> the >>>> Palestinians did not exist, were not wronged. This is different from >>>> the >>>> black-white dynamics, where there was never a credible, widely-accepted >>>> narrative of white victimhood. Similarly, there is no credible, >>>> widely-accepted narrative of male victimhood when it comes to a >>>> discussion >>>> of sexism. Even when one acknowledges the oppressive aspects of the >>>> gendering of masculinity, there is general recognition that while men >>>> are >>>> denied some emotional outlets, they are nevertheless the undisputed >>>> beneficiaries of social gendering. >>>> >>>> But when it comes to the Question of Palestine, we have been plagued for >>>> decades with a narrative of Jewish victimhood that completely erased any >>>> mention of Palestinian loss, the ongoing Nakba. When Palestinian voices >>>> finally broke through the censorship, the dynamics changed. Because >>>> Palestinian voices were no longer contained, a new development took >>>> place, >>>> namely the concerted Zionist effort to make this into a “two sides” >>>> issue—yes, the Palestinians have been wronged, but let us not forget the >>>> centuries of anti-Semitism. Let us have “dialogue” about it, because >>>> there >>>> are two valid perspectives that must be heard… >>>> >>>> Except that the pain of the Israelis, born or choosing to emigrate into >>>> institutionalized privilege, does not in anyway compare with that of the >>>> Palestinians. There is no equivalency, no equal footing, no “we need to >>>> hear from both sides.” >>>> >>>> Because of this background, every time we continue to privilege Jewish >>>> voices, we are empowering the Zionist narrative. Even those Jewish >>>> allies >>>> who are doing stellar and effective work can unwittingly contribute to >>>> this >>>> “normalizing,” when their narrative, their statements, their >>>> witnessing, is >>>> given greater validity because they are Jewish. >>>> >>>> BDS is a call for solidarity, and solidarity, by definition, hinges on >>>> the >>>> participation of allies, rather than those whose bodies are on the line. >>>> It is absolutely normal, then, that there would be more non-Palestinians >>>> than Palestinians participating in BDS, in solidarity work, in >>>> organizing >>>> and even leading campaigns. But the work must center Palestinian >>>> concerns, >>>> Palestinian voices, Palestinian experiences. And because these have >>>> been >>>> silenced, censored, dismissed as biased or even hateful for too long, >>>> Palestinians absolutely must be given center stage now. When >>>> conferences >>>> have an equal number of Jewish and Palestinian speakers (or, as is >>>> sometimes the case, more Jewish speakers than Palestinians), something >>>> is >>>> wrong. When criticism of Israel is given more weight because it is >>>> expressed by a Jew than a Palestinian, something is wrong. As we >>>> privilege >>>> Jewish voices, we are allowing them to eclipse the Palestinian ones. >>>> >>>> We need a multiplicity of voices, a multiplicity of narratives. Jewish >>>> voices play an extremely important role within that chorus. But if we >>>> agree >>>> that the discourse has changed, that the Zionist narrative has been >>>> punctured, then statements by our Jewish allies should not necessarily >>>> begin with “As a Jew,” and the solidarity Jews offer us should not be >>>> valued differently from the solidarity offered us by other communities. >>>> >>>> Israel does not now, and indeed never did, speak for all Jews. It is >>>> time >>>> we put an end to that myth by putting an end to the celebration of >>>> Jewish >>>> voices denouncing Zionism as “exceptional,” or “heroic.” They belong >>>> with >>>> all other such voices, and must magnify, rather than occupy, the >>>> Palestinian narrative. >>>> >>>> - See more at: >>>> >>>> http://mondoweiss.net/2016/04/it-is-time-to-stop-celebrating-jewish-dissent-in-the-palestine-solidarity-movement/#sthash.JgcqlJaz.dpuf >>>> _________________________________________________________ >>>> Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm >>>> Set your options at: >>>> http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/sranz18%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >> > -- - Amith _________________________________________________________ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
