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Apologies if this appears twice. It is not as simple as you suggest. No gender critical feminist I have ever discussed this issue with sees sex as a simple XX/XY chromosome issue. They realise that what results in someone being 'male' or 'female' is a combination of chromosomes, hormones etc. And they don't appreciate being called transphobic for simply wanting these issues to be discussed rather than shut down (per Daniel's post above, "I can say that their arguments tend to be exactly the same as racists and homophobes use against gay and/or black men as predators. And they are as little open to actual facts as racists and homophobes tend to be. Contradict them politely once or twice and they’ll start going on about transwomen as ”rapists in drag”. ’m not one for censorship, but if people get warned and thrown off this list for racist, misogynistic or homophobic posting, why then are repeated transphobic posting permitted?" This characterisation could not be further from my experience of discussions on this issue. I have personally never encountered gender-critical people using arguments "exactly the same as racists and homophobes use against gay and/or black men as predators." I have seen calls for "TERFs" to be raped and murdered (without a squeak from the leftist allies involved in the same discussion). Left allies of the trans activist community tend to just pretend some of their allies don't hold and express such views. It seriously concerns me that calls for women to be raped and murdered should be able to go unchallenged by the Left. It concerns me when I see trans-activists (whether trans or allies I wouldn't know) being cheered for saying lesbians just need a bit of their "ladydick", or that a lesbian's refusal to have sex with a "lesbian" with a penis makes that "lesbian with a penis" a victim of a transphobic "cotton ceiling". In any other context, where the speaker didn't identify as a woman, statements like that would be seen for the misogynist and anti-lesbian homophobia they are. Meanwhile, all trans people are subsumed into a monolith. There are trans people who see their situation as a "disorder" that they have to struggle with every day of their lives. There are MtF trans people who refuse to use the term trans woman to avoid being associated with the current trans activism. And of course there are trans people who see gender self ID as the way forward. It is a mistake for the Left to ride in, deciding the discussion is over before it has really begun, and declaring anyone with a different view to be in need of a warning and a possible ban. If you think the long struggle undertaken by women to have safe spaces was a mistake or is an outdated concept, if you think the existence of women's toilet and changing facilities where women and girls can undress without being watched by or exposed to self identifying women with male genitalia (and possibly opportunistic men taking advantage of the relaxed guidelines/taboos around such spaces) are an anachronism, then make that case and engage in a discussion. It would be an interesting opportunity for a debate that didn't degenerate rapidly into name calling and calls for banning. John On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 10:37 PM Philip Ferguson via Marxism < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > ******************** POSTING RULES & NOTES ******************** > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > ***************************************************************** > > > https://rdln.wordpress.com/2019/10/26/new-lesbian-gay-bisexual-alliance-formed-in-london/ > _________________________________________________________ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: > https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/johnedmundson4%40gmail.com > -- The law locks up the man or woman Who steals the goose from off the common But leaves the greater villain loose Who steals the common from the goose _________________________________________________________ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
