I have spent my entire life in the working class too - just not the American working class :-)
Sonje > On Aug 22, 2020, at 13:06, Peter Turner <[email protected]> wrote: > > Sonje seems to make assumptions that others might not share. As someone who > spent his entire adult life in the working class, I can say that even those > who might be regarded as "the deplorables" are not so enthusiastic about > capitalism as she seems to think. If asked, they probably don't frame their > opinions in that way. When pressed by events, often they (we) exhibit > hostility to capitalism. A common characteristic of middle class commenters, > perhaps including Sonje, is to view workers as Archie Bunker clones because > we have a culture that encourages that image. > > As for guns, that's a subject that could lead to a long exchange. I would > just say that those who want to take away guns should begin by taking those > used most often and for oppressing humanity; but instead they advocate taking > them from those who want to resist oppression and use them the least. Any > association between normal gun ownership and QAnon is misplaced, to say the > least. > > On Sat, Aug 22, 2020 at 11:37 AM Sonje Finnestad <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > They are”quite proud" because they’ve been lied to. They believe all sorts of > untrue things about their country and are ignorant of all sorts of true > things about their country. I am not opposed to patriotism as ’shared > destiny', but American patriotism is both ignorant and dangerous. I also do > not consider myself bound to accept whatever the working class has, as a > result of their oppression, come to accept. The American working class > believes quite firmly in capitalism as well as patriotism, I believe. They > fear ‘socialized medicine’. Should we adopt that? What's next? Guns? Qanon? > >> On Aug 22, 2020, at 07:03, Max Power <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> The idea of a left patriotism is a new one for me, although it probably has >> to do more with my having ignored the topic as much as anything else. >> >> The notion of patriotism espoused here is one of a shared destiny. I think >> it's true that the working class in the U.S. have that, and it's also true >> that the bourgeois coasts do not. This article points out that "100% of >> low-income groups in the U.S. are "very" or "quite proud" of their country." >> No political party that ignores that, or disdains it, can hope to win. >> >> Those living on the coasts feel more kinship with their bourgeois >> class-mates around the world than they do with the people who live away from >> the coasts in their own country. In fact, they hold these people in >> contempt, and it didn't start with Trump's election. >> >> I don't only post things I agree with wholeheartedly. I post things I find >> interesting and well-argued, from a position that used to be called the left. >> >> > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#701): https://groups.io/g/marxmail/message/701 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/76346454/21656 -=-=- POSTING RULES & NOTES<br />#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.<br />#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.<br />#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. -=-=- Group Owner: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/marxmail/leave/8674936/1316126222/xyzzy [[email protected]] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
