Here again, comrade Reimann, you look toward a program or an appeal as the 
tool that will transform the struggle.  You talk of "an appeal to the working 
class
elsewhere, including Turkey".  You say "Would such an appeal have succeeded?
It's impossible to know." Once again, you suggest that raising a banner would be
the issue.

This is a stereotyped formula from the theory of permanent revolution, suggested
without consideration of the existing conditions. This is the same as your 
assessment of the LCCs -- it follows a stereotyped formula, rather than looking 
at
the actual conditions in Syria.

In fact, in any real sense of the word, the Syrian uprising  itself was the 
banner;
along with the other uprisings of the Arab Spring, it echoed throughout the 
region.
If this didn't inspire or reinforce rebellions in neighboring regions, then 
another
appeal certainly wasn't going to do so. In fact, the people were in struggle
throughout the region, and in each country, they faced difficult conditions. 
These
conditions wouldn't have gone away if only another appeal were made, another
program written.

This doesn't mean that the stands of the leaders of the uprising were 
irrelevant.
There needed, for example, to be recognition of the national rights of the Kurds
and work to spread this recognition among the masses of Syrians.  Given the
nature of the Kurdish leadership, one can't say whether much would have been
changed immediately in the democratic movement.  But whether it had immediate
results or not, this would have strengthened the Syrian democratic movement in
the long run. Even on this issue, it isn't simply a matter of rising a banner.


On 28 Nov 2020 at 6:30, John Reimann wrote:

>
> While focusing on Syria, I meant it as an example of the overall
> subject - the Arab Spring.
> Because, let us note, it wasn't only in Syria that the revolt was in
> effect defeated. I accept Michael
> Karadjis's point that they were simply militarily overwhelmed in
> Syria, but that is exactly part of the
> point. Although the revolt in one country inspired a similar revolt
> elsewhere, there was no
> coordination between the different uprisings. And that leads to the
> point I raised in my original
> comments: The need to make an appeal to the working class elsewhere,
> including Turkey. Would
> such an appeal have succeeded? It's impossible to know. It's also
> impossible to know whether an
> attempt on the part of some to coordinate the movement throughout
> the region could have
> succeeded. But are those who oppose what I wrote saying that it
> shouldn't have been tried?
>
> One other thing to note: To succeed in appealing to the Turkish
> working class (yes, I do still hold
> to that old fashioned idea that the working class is the
> revolutionary force in society), to succeed in
> making that link, a class appeal would have been necessary. But how
> can a movement make a
> class appeal to Turkish workers if it isn't clearly based on a class
> appeal at home?
>
> None of this is a simple matter of one or two people making a
> general proposal and magically all
> things will be resolved. Exactly how such politics can be put into
> practice is the question of the
> hour and cannot be resolved from afar. 
>
> Some will be implying - if not openly saying - that these are just
> the rantings of an arrogant
> outsider. What right does he have to talk? That is outside the
> traditions of Marxism. If we can
> critique the politics of struggles in more distant history, why
> can't we do so regarding more recent
> ones?
>
> John Reimann
>
> --
> "Science and socialism go hand-in-hand." Felicity Dowling
> Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com also on Facebook
> 
>



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