Two takeaways from this excellent interview - On Sun, May 12, 2024 at 7:32 AM Dayne Goodwin via groups.io <daynegoodwin= [email protected]> wrote:
> Pulitzer Winner Nathan Thrall on Israel’s “System of Domination” and Biden > Pausing Bomb Shipment > DemocracyNow! May 10 > https://www.democracynow.org/2024/5/9/nathan_thrall_west_bank_violence > > *Jerusalem-based journalist and author Nathan Thrall has been awarded the > 2024 Pulitzer Prize for General Nonfiction for his book, A Day in the Life > of Abed Salama: Anatomy of a Jerusalem Tragedy. It tells the story of > Israel’s occupation of the West Bank through one Palestinian father’s quest > to seek answers and accountability after his 5-year-old son is involved in > a deadly accident. We speak to Thrall about President Biden saying for the > first time that he would not supply certain weapons to Israel to be used in > an all-out invasion of Rafah. “It is too little, too late,” Thrall says. > “It is a step in the right direction, but the administration has said that > it has not made a final determination even about these paused weapons.” > Thrall also discusses Israel’s ceasefire talks with Hamas, anti-Netanyahu > protests led by families of Israeli hostages, Israel’s intensified > crackdown in the West Bank, how criticism of Israel is conflated with > antisemitism, and why debates over the future of a Palestinian state are an > “enormous distraction from the reality on the ground” — Israel’s “system of > domination that is extremely bureaucratic and elaborate, [that] has lasted > for over half a century and [is] not going anywhere.”* > . . . > NERMEEN SHAIKH: Nathan, I was asking you about why you think the > discussions around a two-state or one-state solution are the wrong > discussions to be happening. > > NATHAN THRALL: You know, these conversations are premised on the notion > that Israel eventually has to choose: It has to either give the millions of > Palestinians living under its control without basic civil rights — it has > to give them either citizenship, with equality, or statehood. And so many > people in the diplomatic community would like to have, as they have been > having for decades, debates about what a two-state outcome should look > like, whether there should be two states or one state or confederation or > what have you. > > And all of that is an enormous distraction from the reality on the ground, > because the fact of the matter is, Israel does not have to choose between > two states and one state. It doesn’t have to choose between giving > Palestinians sovereignty or citizenship. It has a third option, which is to > continue on the path that it’s going down. The path that it’s going down is > slow, *de facto* annexation of the West Bank, an absorption of the West > Bank settlements in Area C, a takeover of Palestinian land, and a > constriction of Palestinians into small walled-off or fenced-off > communities, like the town of Anata, where my book takes place, or like > Gaza. > > And so, rather than focusing on the reality, which is a movement in the > opposite direction of either two states or equality in one state, but > rather a deepening of this system of control that leading human rights > organizations, like Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch and the > U.N. Human Rights Council and Al-Haq and B’Tselem, have all described as a > system of apartheid — rather than addressing that system, Israel would very > much like for everybody to debate what would be the ideal outcome, what is > the future utopia that we would all like, and let’s only address this > structural inequality, this systematic domination, once we’ve all agreed > that we’ve landed on the right, perfect outcome. > . . . > AMY GOODMAN: ... And you’re in Berlin right now, in Germany. Germany has > been a remarkable scene, where you have German police arresting Jewish > protesters, saying that they cannot criticize Israel. What has happened > with your events, from Germany to the United States, as you raise questions > about Israel’s war on Gaza? > > NATHAN THRALL: In Germany, I had an event that was to take place on > Tuesday in Frankfurt that was canceled at the very last minute by the Union > International Club in Frankfurt. And none of the people who canceled the > event had read the book or knew a thing about it. And none of them had or > provided any substantive reason for the cancellation. And the same thing > was happening to me in the United States. > > And the reason in Germany is everybody is afraid of being accused of > antisemitism. And what they’re really being accused of is not antisemitism, > but criticism of Israel that is described as antisemitism. And Israel has > spent years — Israel and its allies have spent years, in the United States > and in Germany, putting forward a definition of antisemitism that includes > criticism of Israel, entirely legitimate criticism of Israel, and trying to > get around our basic democratic commitment to free speech by describing > speech that is entirely legitimate as antisemitic. And so, that’s what’s > happened here. > > And who, of course, is the close ally of Israel, the most pro-Israel force > here in Germany? It’s the far-right party. As we see elsewhere, > ethnonationalists love Israel as a model for the kind of place they want to > become: an ethnonational state that will dominate over people who are not > like them. > . . . > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#30303): https://groups.io/g/marxmail/message/30303 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/106053420/21656 -=-=- POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. #4 Do not exceed five posts a day. -=-=- Group Owner: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/marxmail/leave/8674936/21656/1316126222/xyzzy [[email protected]] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
