John, you disparaged me and claimed I said something about you that I did not. The decent thing to do is to either find the post where I "denounced you" for voting for Biden or apologize for your mistake.
Mark > On Jul 4, 2024, at 6:56 AM, John Reimann via groups.io > <[email protected]> wrote: > > There is a reason for the silence of the ultra left sectarians in the face of > the soft left "national experts", just as there is a reason the ultra left > sectarians in effect see no difference between the Democrats and the present > day Republicans. The reason is this: Those who are serious about the working > class being an independent force in society actually speak up in the open. We > actually try to build a working class opposition not only to the capitalists > but also to the union leadership, which keeps the unions linked to the > capitalists. And we recognize that it will be many times more difficult to > organize anything under conditions of dictatorship (AKA bonapartism) than > under bourgeois democracy. For the ultra left sectarians, dictatorship or > democracy doesn't really matter since they won't be doing anything in > practice anyway. They figure that if they just flap their lips in their nice > safe little echo chambers that the likes of Trump will leave them alone. > > They are a perfect example of what Trotsky said: That ultra left sectarianism > is just opportunism standing in fear of itself. > > On Thu, Jul 4, 2024 at 6:13 AM John Reimann <[email protected]> wrote: > It really makes me laugh when I see the likes of mbaugher denounce me for > having voted for Biden in 2020. In the first place, as is typical of the > sectarians, he hides behind the issue of Biden's support for Israel's > genocidal war. The fact is that he and the other sectarians consider it to be > a matter of absolute principle, good for all times and places, to never vote > for any bourgeois Democrat. That's the real issue. Of course, I didn't notice > these sectarians attack the entire left in Brazil for supporting the > bourgeois Lula against Bolsonaro in the second round of the elections there. > But what does consistency matter to the sectarians? > > But more to the point: When Baugher & Co. organized a forum on the "new" > labor movement, they made sure that there would not be a single speaker who > opposed the union leadership's absolute support for the Democrats. Then, 2 of > the 3 speakers predictably defended those links, while the third one focused > on petty details. What was the response of these ferocious "Marxists"? They > were quiet as a churchmouse. Then, after I expressed my opposition to that > connection, Baugher clearly considered this to be beyond the pale. > > It's all too typical: shout and rage about the Democrats in these nice, safe > ultra-left echo chambers and then, when confronted with the soft left > "national experts" be quiet as a churchmouse. > > John Reimann > > -- > “Science and socialism go hand-in-hand.” Felicity Dowling > Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com also on Facebook > > > -- > “Science and socialism go hand-in-hand.” Felicity Dowling > Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com also on Facebook > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#31001): https://groups.io/g/marxmail/message/31001 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/106994799/21656 -=-=- POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. #4 Do not exceed five posts a day. -=-=- Group Owner: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/marxmail/leave/8674936/21656/1316126222/xyzzy [[email protected]] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
