Carl wrote: "You say you know campists who are holding back from endorsing the present protest movement until they learn more about it. Is that really true, or are they just holding back from admitting what they already know?"
No, that isn't what I said. I said, "I know campists who are opposing the protests in Iran and the change of government in Syria for exactly those reasons - Iran opposes the US, therefore it gets a 'get out of jail free' card." I'm not willing to speculate over "what they already know" and I don't think they're "holding back". Neither Mossad nor the CIA needed to "mobilize thousands", they just needed to capitalise on and influence existing discontent. I'm not saying that is what happened but it's plausible. That's why I said I hope the movement is genuine and that I don't fully understand the detail. I spoke to an Iranian acquaintance yesterday. I know speaking to one person doesn't mean much but I think her opinion is interesting. She has lived out of Iran for just over a decade but returns to visit family. She wears the hijab but admires the women who refused. She believes in incremental change at this point. She believes the protests over the veil are the way to begin a process of change and she also believes the country needs another revolution "like the one in 1979". She doesn't support the government but when she lived in Iran she attended the pro-government rallies because she doesn't want Iran's future determined by outside powers, specifically the US and Israel. She believes she's in a very small minority in the Iranian community here - most are praying that the US and Israel intervene, but she says just look at Afghanistan, Syria, Libya and Gaza. They're Iran's near or actual neighbours; that's what to expect if the US and Israel intervene. [and I notice that talk has begun over plans to break up Iran]. The impression I got is that she thinks the people in the current protests are being guided by outside forces. She didn't actually criticise them, just compared this movement to the anti-veil protests. I found her impressions really interesting and nuanced. She isn't a socialist as far as I know, but she had a very plausible understanding of what is going on. I didn't expect her to be supportive of the veil protests given that she wears the hijab. But she was clearly able to separate her own personal/religious views from the politics of that movement. And she does think the country needs a revolution. She just doesn't think this is it. So as I say, I want to understand more before I start supporting a movement that is chanting reactionary anti-internationalist chants like "Not Gaza, Not Lebanon, I'll die for Iran", and that is being cheered for by the same people who have cheered for genocide in Palestine. I don't think the protesters are pro-genocide, just desperate and maybe being swayed. Comradely, John -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#40304): https://groups.io/g/marxmail/message/40304 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/117333480/21656 -=-=- POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. #4 Do not exceed five posts a day. -=-=- Group Owner: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/marxmail/leave/13617172/21656/1316126222/xyzzy [[email protected]] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
