Will et al.,

just one quick comment on the whole notion of pre-coordinated subject
headings - I'm leaning a little bit out of the window here, and if Richard
Urban has had his class on MARC cataloguing yet, he may stand ready to
correct me :-). However, here 'tis to the best of my knowledge:

In MARC, the data of the subject heading as quoted by Will as "Steel
Industry--Pennsylvania--Pittsburgh." would actually sit in separate
subfields. It looks like this (taken from an actual MARC record):

650   ·0‡aSteel industry‡zPennsylvania‡zPittsburgh.

The ‡a indicates that what follows is a topical subject term, and the ‡z
indicates that what follows is a geographic term. However, when subject
headings get displayed in an OPAC, they usually display using the two
dashes just to make things legible. The result: now when somebody takes a
subject heading "out of context" (flippant for "not in a MARC record"),
people have also use the dashes to put an entire subject heading into one
single undifferentiated field.

Why should you care? I think you might because you're mixing apples and
oranges. Sure, all these terms pertain to a subject, but they're also
different in that one pertains to a topical subject, the other to a
geographic subject, etc. If you'd like to be able to browse your collection
by geographic location or topical subjects, having these terms in different
fields would be a prerequisite. Again, this differentiation gets lost if
you just use the entire string in a single field.

Probably more than anybody wanted to know about this, but I couldn't
resist...

Cheers,

Günter

***

Günter Waibel
Program Officer/RLG
2029 Stierlin Court, Suite 100, Mountain View, CA  94043 USA
voice: +1-650-691-2304 | fax: +1-650-964-1461
blog: www.hangingtogether.org
[email protected]


                                                                           
             "Real, Will"                                                  
             <RealW@CarnegieMu                                             
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             12/05/2005 07:13                                           cc 
             AM                                                            
                                                                   Subject 
                                       RE: STEVE & folksonomies / was      
             Please respond to         subject & keyword searching in CMS  
               [email protected]           and DAMS                            
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           




Richard et al.,

I wanted to clarify something about my question "Does anyone have an
opinion about the value, in the networked information world, of the
hierarchical LC subject format I described ("Steel
Industry--Pennsylvania--Pittsburgh.")"?

We do buy in to the idea of using LCSH as an authority for subject terms,
for the reasons that Richard stated. What to me is questionable is the
insistence on the pre-coordinated format in all of its arcane requirements.
Recently, for example, I was asked by the cataloguer to correct some
subject headings in our database because a) the heading was missing the
period at the end, b) the second word of a two word phrase was
inappropriately capitalized (Steel Industry should have been Steel
industry), c) one of the two hyphens was missing, d) "Pittsburgh, PA"
should have been written "Pittsburgh, Pa." (with the dot at the end!).

For internal use (within the museum) these formatting subtleties are
entirely irrelevant since our collections management system is blind to
case and punctuation. It doesn't matter whether you query for PA or Pa.,
you will get the same results either way. It also does not matter to the
database whether the terms are "properly" strung together or listed
separately.

What I would like to know is, are there good arguments for maintaining this
kind of consistency in the internet environment? If there is, it would be
easier to bear the extra effort it takes to conform; if not, it seems like
a waste of time and resources, with no real payoff in the end.

If we did away with the pre-coordinated, hyper-formatted version of LCSH,
and went to a format of single terms, we would still likely use the LCSH as
a vocabulary control, to maintain consistency in the use of subject terms.
We do understand how critical that would be.

If we were ever to pursue a social tagging strategy, I would imagine that
the tags would be stored either somewhere "between" the catalogue itself
and the public interface, as I think Jennifer Trant said earlier in this
thread, or, in another field in the catalogue itself, designated for this
purpose, so as not to overlap the social (relatively uncontrolled)
vocabulary with the cataloguer's (LCSH etc. controlled) vocabulary.

                         Richard Urban wrote:

                         The problem that I see in these discussions is
that those not steeped in the
                         cataloging tradition don't often see the LCSH as a
larger social system of
                         collaboratively creating a common set of terms.
There are, no doubt,
                         challenges with using LCSH that derive from what
LCSH is.  (And I'm going
                         out on a limb here. LCSH isn't covered in my
cataloging class until next
                         week....corrections welcome) LCSH subject headings
aren't just made up willy
                         nilly, they're based on the concept of "literary
warrant" or that the terms
                         used are actually represented in the body of
materials being described.
                         For bibliographic texts there's a leading
organization and a large group of
                         users, following a common format that debate the
addition/deletion and
                         change of terms based on the bibliographic
materials they see.  I'm not
                         exactly sure how visual materials feed into this
process, but the bulk of
                         LCSH is likely to be based on texts, rather than
images. It often looks like
                         madness, but there is method to it.

                         The question seems to suggest whether we
can/should develop a "visual
                         literary warrant" for describing the "ofness" and
"aboutness" of the
                         materials we're describing.  Things like
Cataloging Cultural Objects (CCO)
                         are an important step towards that goal because
they provide guidance and
                         some liberal constraints on what kinds of
controlled vocabularies are used
                         for subject description.  LCSH is not a magic
bullet, but an appropriate
                         controlled vocabulary is going to offer some
advantages over "keywords".


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