On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 6:55 PM, David Greaves <[email protected]> wrote:
> Take a deep breath Jeremiah :) > meh. The ad hominem attacks are irrelevant. > > This is not a "good" situation but it is managable and may help resolve > some organisational issues wrt MeeGo - silver lining :) I have no idea what you're now trying to say. Are you saying; "It's okay that I forked the official apps for MeeGo!" Because forking is generally considered a Bad Thing. > On 03/08/11 10:05, Jeremiah Foster wrote: > >> Hardly cheap Dave. I'd say its rather expensive as my company and many >> of the companies we work with have assigned developers to work with LF >> tools and distro's like MeeGo and OBS. If we cannot develop things >> like app stores to compete with Google and Apple then we've invested >> considerable money at a significant loss. We cannot generate revenue >> through the "authorized" app delivery mechanism. Sorry, I don't see >> how this is not a fair reflection of the Linux Foundation. >> > > IMO this is nothing to do with App Stores generally. Yeah, someone else mentioned this is limited to the Linux kernel only. I really don't understand that approach. Free Software is governed by a license, not by some arbitrary location in the stack. The point would be to create a free software app store. Or at least give people the license to and tools create their own for MeeGo. Or perhaps just let them use the trademark if it works with MeeGo, but I guess we're going with the Android or iOS approach here. > This is LF refusing to take a legal risk on an area they feel that they > have limited control over. It is a bit sad but litigation in the US is not > something a small company messes with. > But if they do not stand up for developers creating apps for GNU/Linux distros, who will? How can the LF be scared of lawsuits? What happened to that giant trove of patents that IBM donated to Open Source? I'm sorry, I'm not buying it. > > MeeGo as a project never (AIUI) promised to deliver an app store or a > mechanism to deploy a local one. We in the hacker community wanted to > support MeeGo by bringing OSS developers into the fold. Hopefully they'd > help polish the tools and processes - and of course we'd get to publish our > apps. So it was - and remains - a good idea for MeeGo. See later for why. > > > From where I am standing, with no special knowledge at all, it looks like >>> the Linux Foundation is simply a risk-averse organisation, conscious of >>> the >>> potential knock-on effects that any legal issues could cause for their >>> members and the projects they host. >>> >> > Yes. > > The question this raises for me is : is LF a suitable host for the MeeGo > community. If you think that MeeGo is going to somehow magically escape the clutches of the LF you need to "take a deep breath." They're not even going to provide an rsync server for the repos: https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19745 > > This is extremely dangerous. It goes against the precedent that says >> "there exist no legal claims against Linux." >> > > Total red herring Linux != OSS Apps. Totally not. There is no proprietary code in the GNU userland either. There are also tools that go through GNU/Linux packages regularly looking for stolen code, things like FOSSology and protec so I think in general the GNU/Linux kernel and userland are pretty well covered as, at the very least, prior art. I'm sure we could get permission from one of those company's to use their tools on our app repos which would go a long way towards indemnifying LF. > It looks to me like legal counsel has a >>> pretty big say in some strategic decisions the foundation makes, more so >>> than corporate members (in fact, there are a couple of examples of >>> corporate >>> members pushing for things which met with some resistance in the Linux >>> Foundation). >>> >> >> I don't know what you're referring to - perhaps you do have some >> "special knowledge?" >> > > All idle speculation .... but WTF are we supposed to do? Is there a distro that you can work on that isn't controlled by the LF? Are there other Linux distros out there? I've heard of one or two. > The LF are just not communicating. > And yet you've decided to create your own app store with the trademarked term "MeeGo" in the name! > > I suggest that all we can do is some risk assesment as a project. Right now > the limited information we have is that LF will not expose themselves to > legal risk associated with binary distribution... so what happens to the > main OBS? Home projects in the main OBS? Community OBS? CE project on the > Community OBS? Use something else? > > If my impression is correct, then you're not achieving anything with this >>> characterisation - >>> >> >> Obviously I disagree. I think devs who get involved with a LF project >> should know how they treat devs and the faux legal hurdles they face. >> Knowing this before hand helps them make the right decision when it is >> time to contribute code. >> > > Given a choice I personally would not currently choose to use the LF to > host an OSS project. Maybe I would choose them to do some "corporate > hoorah"; honestly I don't know what 'services' they offer but clearly > hosting an OSS community isn't one of them. True dat. > > > But in the end, developers vote with their >> contributions, so we can molly coddle a thousand legal eagles and not >> advance GNU/Linux one tiny inch forward. David Greaves has done the >> only logical thing when you hit an impasse; fork. >> > > I certainly wouldn't consider it a fork - as this unfolded I was working > with Niels, Quim and Dawn too. I consider myself as working within the MeeGo > project to find a suitable host for our community services. > > I feel I must emphasise that if anyone thinks that I'm working to fork or > split MeeGo or "do it better elswhere" then I really have miscommunicated. I > remain 100% committed to the MeeGo project and simply want to resolve our > problems in the best way possible. Heh ... actually, IMO Dawn and Quim seem > to favour the simple 'split' apps.formeego.org from meego.com. I feel I'm > actually fighting to keep everything in one place. > > Why? Well, I personally feel there's a comprehensive community story around > MeeGo : > http://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/**2011/08/restructure-meego-by-** > installments.html<http://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/2011/08/restructure-meego-by-installments.html> > (Long read ... complex subject) > > > LF bears some of the >> responsibility for this situation and to let them avoid it in their >> stony silence is irresponsible. >> > > 'some' ? otherwise +1 > > David > > PS I noticed the cc list is changing. Be polite and mention if/why you > explicitly add or remove someone from the cc. I have no idea why. I just hit "reply all" every time. I have no interest in weeding anyone out. Regards, Jeremiah
_______________________________________________ MeeGo-dev mailing list [email protected] http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
